To lower the standard, even a little bit, is to devalue the achievements of everybody else who wears the same badge.
What a load of pompous arrogant nonsense!
When I'm on my way back to my car after an event and I see some guy still out there running and doing his best to make it in under 4 and a half hours, there's only one thought that crosses my mind and that's 'well done mate, more power to you'
As a relative newcomer to the sport all I can say is I sincerely hope that this is the view of a very small minority. With elitist constraints in place as suggested I would never have had the courage to enter and train for my first race and without people like me doing that, this sport will wither and die.
I'm shocked, actually, that there are views like this held by people involved in triathlon, which until now I had truly believed to be an inclusive and democratic activity - open to all.
Well said, mallamopaul. Your comments have helped somewhat towards reassuring me that most people are in triathlon for the right reasons...
Great discussion – and yes I am a little arrogant, but also humble enough to admit I may have been a bit overzealous in my original argument. The last thing I would want to do is to give the impression that this is an elitist sport. In fact, the first thing I say to anyone who says ‘wow you do triathlons’ (not those word exactly, but you get my point), is ‘you could too, it’s really not that hard’.
I still hold Ironman in a kind of awe. And I worry that you could end up with massive fields of people ‘having a crack’ and the whole thing loses what makes it special (in my view). Is it really too much to ask of a prospective ironman to complete a half first? Surely that would mean that everyone who entered knew what they were letting themselves in for and would, probably, be taking it seriously? I want to do an Ironman in 2010 – and I will do a half IM or middle distance tri first.
Again, sincere apolgies – especially for people who are new to the sport. Most people don’t think like me, don’t worry!
Well done Mowf. This sort of thing has to be done and someone has to raise their head (no matter how inflated) above the parapit.
A couple of closing points
1. If you don't set high standards for yourdelf you will never reach your potential, and if setting these high standard means that you develop an elitist attitude then so be it - it does not make you a bad person
2. Threads like this blow the lid off the idyllic world that some inhabit. It goes to show that there are people out there with a hardline attitude and that if you enter the world of competitive sport that you need to be prepared to compete alongside others who want to win
It really got some good debate going, there's nothing wrong with being ultra competitive and there's nothing wrong with just doing it.
However when I finish a race and see someone who is obviously under-prepared and ill-equipped (as opposed to blowing up or getting nutrition wrong) trtailing around I think "why did you bother?" to myself
Treefrog... I suspect from your posts that you are a decent age-grouper and push yourself to improve.... I take note of most of your advice you give as it makes sense but what you have written in this thread is a steaming pile of crap in my opinion.
However when I finish a race and see someone who is obviously under-prepared and ill-equipped (as opposed to blowing up or getting nutrition wrong) trtailing around I think "why did you bother?" to myself
I urge you to keep these judgements to yourself. You can honestly have no idea what is going on with another person's race; whether they be ill-prepared or have something else to battle with. Ultimately it's their 'problem' if it's going slow for them, however maybe 'trailing around' is a good pace for that individual. Who are you to know or judge?
I find many of the opinions and assumptions expressed in this thread are quite worrying. The sport of triathlon must continue to be open for all who want to give it a bash and if this changes or if people find themselves judged on outward appearances then I believe the sport will suffer.
I've stayed quite quiet on this post and the other, although I have written a couple of responses I've never actually posted... but just my 2 pence worth:-
As long as any competitor doesn’t impede others I have no problems with anyone of any ability entering most races regardless of training or preparation…… I only ask that the under prepared enter with the intention of finishing.. Triathlon should be inclusive…..
I entered my first sprint last September and the friendliness of the other competitors, especially when they found out it was my first Tri was second to none - one of the main reasons I’ve become enthused about Tri and I've come back for more is the camaraderie, the friendliness of this forum is a beacon to the rest of the sporting world in my opinion.
I'm now looking at entering a 1/2 IM in September and I will train as much as possible, but with an extremely busy schedule, I really struggle to put in a training schedule that will allow me compete with the elites of this world. But I will compete, I won’t win and I will try to achieve some personals, whether that is just to finish or finish in under 7 1/2 hours or whatever.. If I give everything I can and finish I will feel harshly done by if I’m not shown the respect by my fellow athletes. After all attempting a Tri (and possibly doing badly) is so much better than the people who can’t be bothered to get off their arses..
BTW When looking in to a 1/2IM, I saw this note on the application for the ForestMan Tri “If this is to be your 1st full distance tri please supply evidence of a half-ironman (middle distance) result from the last 3 years.
This course is unsuitable for novices.”
Looks like it is already starting… just in the guise of H&S!!
I must say the controversial posts are some of the best on the forum recently.
A couple of observations:
Is there a difference in thought process from those who've done a season/s in tri to those who are just begining? I think there is. It would be interesting the rehash this post in a years time after some of those of you have yet to go through a tri season do. Will you respond the same? I know you will say you will now but will you?
Some of the older hands give you honest feedback and advice take it but you also have to respect there opinions even if you don't like them.
There are other forums. 220 is very beginner friendly and welcoming by all! Fact. Look how many times new people post the same post we've had 100 times, no one moans at them they answer, point you in the right direction and so on, even Treefrog. Try tritalk and you'll see what elitist and brutal can really look like! Newbie posts often get short shrift and answers like google first before posting and use the search please. How do i run faster gets responses like move your legs faster!
Give it a season and you'll all be saying a sprint is a training morning!
As someone who regularly props up the results list from the bottom,will all you 'elite' people still be competing in a couple of years when the younger faster triathletes arrive and start to burn you into the ground,when you get pushed off the back on the sunday morning chain gang,when you reach the end of the sprint during your weekly club run only to find the faster ones have set off again, and your standing in the results push you down to my level(welcome to the dark side),or will you move on to another sport where you can be an elite for a couple of years,before the cycle continues and pushes you onto ,well maybe I'll see you on the golf course with your titanium this,and pro that etc holding court in the nineteenth hole.
Sfuller I found your reply disappointing. What I stated was my honest opinion and you were wrong to dismiss it in such terms.
This thread was posted as being contraversial and therefore the inference is that it would contain statements and opinions that some may find extreme.
I stated my opinions; firstly that you have to push boundaries to improve, secondly I pointed out a reality to beginners and "fun-runners" - some people find them irksome and thirdly that threads like this promote robust and healthy debate. Lastly I gave my honest thoughts on the ill prepared and under equipped.
Your dismissal of my opinions and honesty with a cheap metaphor was bad form, then again you are entitled to your opinion no matter how you determine to state it
Again, I reiterate, I really take note of the advice you give Treefrog due to respecting you as a decent and knowledgable competitor, I am happy to ask you a question and have 100% belief in your answers but I don't appreciate your elitist attitude and I guess your responses on this thread just made me annoyed.
there are some of us that raced for GB in another sport for 16 years, so maybe we are new to triathlon and maybe we have a voice and some experience of sport....
I havent seen this elitest behaviour before.... but maybe thats triathlon.... maybe i should find another sport to try instead
Is there a difference in thought process from those who've done a season/s in tri to those who are just begining? I think there is. It would be interesting the rehash this post in a years time after some of those of you have yet to go through a tri season do. Will you respond the same? I know you will say you will now but will you?
Overweight, working too much in thirties with kids. As i said earlier i couldn't swim more than 25m front crawl, didn't own a bike and had never ever owned a racing bike.
God it's me!!! I started the same as you, I remember back watching the Sydney olympics after a night out (drunk) and thought I'm going to do one of them. So I got fat then thought I've really got to do one, nine years on I DID AN IRONMAN in a very proud 15 hours 32.
So my take on this is triathlon is a sport for everyone not just Mr and Mrs Bayliss, but why does everyone argue so much, if someone thinks a 1/2 marathon should be done in under 1.30 and you don't who cares. There are bigger things in the world to worry about.
And one last point do you think women should be made to wear bikinis while doig TRI?
Comments
What a load of pompous arrogant nonsense!
When I'm on my way back to my car after an event and I see some guy still out there running and doing his best to make it in under 4 and a half hours, there's only one thought that crosses my mind and that's 'well done mate, more power to you'
Shame on anybody who doesn't think the same!
As a relative newcomer to the sport all I can say is I sincerely hope that this is the view of a very small minority. With elitist constraints in place as suggested I would never have had the courage to enter and train for my first race and without people like me doing that, this sport will wither and die.
I'm shocked, actually, that there are views like this held by people involved in triathlon, which until now I had truly believed to be an inclusive and democratic activity - open to all.
Well said, mallamopaul. Your comments have helped somewhat towards reassuring me that most people are in triathlon for the right reasons...
blurredgirl
Great discussion – and yes I am a little arrogant, but also humble enough to admit I may have been a bit overzealous in my original argument. The last thing I would want to do is to give the impression that this is an elitist sport. In fact, the first thing I say to anyone who says ‘wow you do triathlons’ (not those word exactly, but you get my point), is ‘you could too, it’s really not that hard’.
I still hold Ironman in a kind of awe. And I worry that you could end up with massive fields of people ‘having a crack’ and the whole thing loses what makes it special (in my view). Is it really too much to ask of a prospective ironman to complete a half first? Surely that would mean that everyone who entered knew what they were letting themselves in for and would, probably, be taking it seriously? I want to do an Ironman in 2010 – and I will do a half IM or middle distance tri first.
Again, sincere apolgies – especially for people who are new to the sport. Most people don’t think like me, don’t worry!
A couple of closing points
1. If you don't set high standards for yourdelf you will never reach your potential, and if setting these high standard means that you develop an elitist attitude then so be it - it does not make you a bad person
2. Threads like this blow the lid off the idyllic world that some inhabit. It goes to show that there are people out there with a hardline attitude and that if you enter the world of competitive sport that you need to be prepared to compete alongside others who want to win
It really got some good debate going, there's nothing wrong with being ultra competitive and there's nothing wrong with just doing it.
However when I finish a race and see someone who is obviously under-prepared and ill-equipped (as opposed to blowing up or getting nutrition wrong) trtailing around I think "why did you bother?" to myself
I urge you to keep these judgements to yourself. You can honestly have no idea what is going on with another person's race; whether they be ill-prepared or have something else to battle with. Ultimately it's their 'problem' if it's going slow for them, however maybe 'trailing around' is a good pace for that individual. Who are you to know or judge?
I find many of the opinions and assumptions expressed in this thread are quite worrying. The sport of triathlon must continue to be open for all who want to give it a bash and if this changes or if people find themselves judged on outward appearances then I believe the sport will suffer.
blurredgirl
I've stayed quite quiet on this post and the other, although I have written a couple of responses I've never actually posted... but just my 2 pence worth:-
As long as any competitor doesn’t impede others I have no problems with anyone of any ability entering most races regardless of training or preparation…… I only ask that the under prepared enter with the intention of finishing.. Triathlon should be inclusive…..
I entered my first sprint last September and the friendliness of the other competitors, especially when they found out it was my first Tri was second to none - one of the main reasons I’ve become enthused about Tri and I've come back for more is the camaraderie, the friendliness of this forum is a beacon to the rest of the sporting world in my opinion.
I'm now looking at entering a 1/2 IM in September and I will train as much as possible, but with an extremely busy schedule, I really struggle to put in a training schedule that will allow me compete with the elites of this world. But I will compete, I won’t win and I will try to achieve some personals, whether that is just to finish or finish in under 7 1/2 hours or whatever.. If I give everything I can and finish I will feel harshly done by if I’m not shown the respect by my fellow athletes. After all attempting a Tri (and possibly doing badly) is so much better than the people who can’t be bothered to get off their arses..
BTW When looking in to a 1/2IM, I saw this note on the application for the ForestMan Tri “If this is to be your 1st full distance tri please supply evidence of a half-ironman (middle distance) result from the last 3 years.
This course is unsuitable for novices.”
Looks like it is already starting… just in the guise of H&S!!
A couple of observations:
Is there a difference in thought process from those who've done a season/s in tri to those who are just begining? I think there is. It would be interesting the rehash this post in a years time after some of those of you have yet to go through a tri season do. Will you respond the same? I know you will say you will now but will you?
Some of the older hands give you honest feedback and advice take it but you also have to respect there opinions even if you don't like them.
There are other forums. 220 is very beginner friendly and welcoming by all! Fact. Look how many times new people post the same post we've had 100 times, no one moans at them they answer, point you in the right direction and so on, even Treefrog. Try tritalk and you'll see what elitist and brutal can really look like! Newbie posts often get short shrift and answers like google first before posting and use the search please. How do i run faster gets responses like move your legs faster!
Give it a season and you'll all be saying a sprint is a training morning!
Come back in a year and tell me i'm wrong!
G
This thread was posted as being contraversial and therefore the inference is that it would contain statements and opinions that some may find extreme.
I stated my opinions; firstly that you have to push boundaries to improve, secondly I pointed out a reality to beginners and "fun-runners" - some people find them irksome and thirdly that threads like this promote robust and healthy debate. Lastly I gave my honest thoughts on the ill prepared and under equipped.
Your dismissal of my opinions and honesty with a cheap metaphor was bad form, then again you are entitled to your opinion no matter how you determine to state it
there are some of us that raced for GB in another sport for 16 years, so maybe we are new to triathlon and maybe we have a voice and some experience of sport....
I havent seen this elitest behaviour before.... but maybe thats triathlon.... maybe i should find another sport to try instead
God it's me!!! I started the same as you, I remember back watching the Sydney olympics after a night out (drunk) and thought I'm going to do one of them. So I got fat then thought I've really got to do one, nine years on I DID AN IRONMAN in a very proud 15 hours 32.
So my take on this is triathlon is a sport for everyone not just Mr and Mrs Bayliss, but why does everyone argue so much, if someone thinks a 1/2 marathon should be done in under 1.30 and you don't who cares.
There are bigger things in the world to worry about.
And one last point do you think women should be made to wear bikinis while doig TRI?