Right, that's enough. I'm going to find a moderator and get a whole new section created, so all the 'Shaving' stuff doesn't have to go in the 'General' forum. [;)]
If I may briefly return the subject to body fat....
I have some body fat scales which I use to measure the trend, rather than worry about the absolute figure. So, in my example it might (reasonably) say I am 50% lard one week, and 49% the next. I couldn't care less about the actual number, more that it has gone in the right direction. Same goes with weight.
I am very interested in samutri's research proposal. Maybe legalb could assist with some photo evidence [:D]
Yes, I'm joking, lb. The main point is that trends are better than absolutes, there is no right answer because of body shape and dimensions, and sometimes your non-triathlon lifestyle is important too.
Oh dear. I'm in trouble now. I suggested that people have lives outside triathlon. I shall wax my legs as punishment.
No you didn't, you made the error of thinkng there is such a thing as a non triathlon lifestyle, once you are a triathlete...after all the magazines keep telling us it a lifestyle sport, so it must be true. I reckon your leg hairs are safe for a while longer.
I try and look at trends too and just keep an eye that they are going in the right direction. I try not to get too hung up on the scales etc and stick to weighting and measuring about every two weeks, usually at the same time of day too.
Thanks for the words of encouragement P.I.P I don't feel like such a freak now! It's a shame I am not nearer to Cheshire, I'd take you up on that analysis offer - it sound really interesting
Nice comment BoPo - trust me, you don't want a photo - not unless I can have a body double to stand in for it - preferrably one that's younger, fitter etc etc!!
Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, i don't think anyone in our sport should ever be worrying that much about body fat %. The only way I think it can help is when it can give you an idea as to when you are consistently eating more than your burning.
My reasons for this are, the high intensity long duration training that we go through will change the body composition, fuel burning etc, therefore it is very likely we will become lean without actively trying to loose weight.
Also, and this is the big one, I used to obsess of body fat. It got so bad that my carb restriction got stupid, it started to have a seriously detrimental affect on my training, I used to have serious trouble sleeping, due to my body waking me up telling me to eat more! All I cared about was getting my % down, and yes, it was for the aesthetic reasons.
I am now at around 7-8% thanks to a change in attitude, and the consistent high intensity triathlon training. And I have never been happier since I stopped worrying about what I put in my mouth!
Agree completely, Tommitri. I've been there myself: not enough carbs becasue of worrying about fat. I ended up going so low on sugar that for a few weeks I was stinking of ammonia every time I sweated - it's something to do with breaking down protein for energy instead of sugar, I think.
Poor quality training, bad sleep, bad moods etc. Not nice.
Change of mind set.... it's not a belly, it's a FUEL TANK. [:D]
Here, here... its far too easy to become obsessed with %BF, you and only you know if you feel right...listen to the body is always a good guide i find and if i'm craving sugar or sweet things it's usually for a reason (although i'm not sure about the cravings for alcohol, must be a kickback from the rugby days). Thats probably why i'm lounging on the couch now shovelling flapjacks down my throat!!!
By the way, i'm doing my fist ever half marathon on Sunday in the wonderful Blackpool so if anyones got any advice twud be most welcome, especially on what to eat day before and for brekky...
Also can't back out of the whole waxing for charity thing now either cos McMillans have been across and put posters up, taken piccies, official sponsor forms and everything... two weeks today is the big, painful day... very very disturbing how many people think i should go the whole hog and get back, sack and crack done!!! Even mrs PiP seems to be egging them on!!! and the armpits have also been suggested, i think its just payback for the pain i put people through in spin classes and PT sessions!!... wish me luck!!
You never hear a skinny person say that % BF doesn't matter!!! I still say 0% is ideal, that fat does not make you faster - it slows you down and you cannot be too skinny or bald!
I am a skinny person! and I say it doesnt matter! I only weigh 70kg, and only 7% BF!
No seriously, what I mean is, yes it does matter. We should all strive to be thinner with less fat, more lean, more speed. On the national view this country is not far short of the USA and may soon experience the kind of obesity explosion that has happened there.
But i think if you start consciously thinking about it it becomes an obsession. And with me the obsession started to screw my life up!
I read that Roy Keane was, at 8%, the leanest player at Man Utd in the late 90s/early 00s. If a group of professional athletes (and Wayne Rooney) are all more than 8% then I can't help feeling that we're all being a bit excessive if we think that 7% is only just acceptable. A bit of fat is good for you - you'll be the person who has the extra reserves to last out the last leg of the ironman or the last day of the Marathon de Sables.
thats quite surprising, i always thought keane was a bit chubby, maybe thats just because he had a fat head!
I think for elite triathletes the average is 5-10%, i believe that makes them the lowest body fat sporting group on average. I think! don't kill me if I'm wrong! Either way its pretty excessive!
But yeh its ok to carry a little bit, it is nice to have a six pack tho! purely for aesthetic reasons! And also as I am currently only doing sprints, (I dont plan on doing ironman for at least 10 years to so yet!) body fat can make quite a big difference!
Sorry to but in but large person speaking now,0% body fat will cause a large amount of damage to the bodys internal system,muscle is not as flexible as fat(try the wobble test),and a body without fat is similar to a car with no suspension ,the shock waves are not absorbed.I appreciate that a lower bf is beneficial but striving for zero percentage will curtail any long athletic performance at high level.BMI (not the airline),clothes size,obesity charts are seriously outdated and belong in the bin ,a holistic and synegenic approach has to be made and at an individual level not at a general one.Obesity is on the rise and education and physical well being should be high on the national curriculam.
dont worry it is only treefrog that keeps pushing his 0% fat opinion, despite the fact that it is physiologically impossible, in normal circumstances anyhow, whatever anybody says. below 10% is a good aim.
"You never hear a skinny person say that % BF doesn't matter!!! I still say 0% is ideal, that fat does not make you faster - it slows you down and you cannot be too skinny or bald!"
I have the dubious benefit of being both skinny and balding, and still don't think that anything below the high single digits is sensible. I would prefer to stay slim rather than put on too much fat, but I am more likely to try to eat more in order to increase my weight and muscle than to starve myself or get to obsessive in the gym in order to get the perfect sixpack.
I'm off to sit in a corner and sulk with all this talk of sub 10% BF,I stood on the scales and registered 29.8%.I admit that when I am wearing lycra it looks like 2 hippo's having a fight in a bin bag,the body height to weight ratio puts me in the obese category,but at my annual medical for work my resting pulse is below that which is acceptable for the computer so the Doc adds on a few beats to put it into the acceptable range.Just because I am fat doesn't mean that I am unfit.
I think that the advent of the new season has robbed you of a sense of irony or maybe you are all Americans - that would explain the willingness to justify excessive weight! No I don't mean that, and I am also aware that it is impossible to be 0% body fat and after 20 years of competing at various levels in a weight defined sport I also know and have sucummbed to the perils of overdoing the weight loss thing. However I do subscribe to getting rid of as much EXCESS body fat as possible or failing that as much as you can for better performance (I'm hardly a fatty at my current 72kg but I had my most significant wins at 67kg). In short many people new to sport ask the question "how much weight do I have to lose?" In the hope that they hear what they want to hear. And as for shaving do what you want to do but I used always get a 0 blade on the head why? to look mean!!! To save some weight (yes really and its common enough) and because psychlogically I felt better. I have no axe to grind with any overweight long haired hippies who are doing tri especially those on Halfords dual suspension bikes, but if they ask for advise in order to improve I would tell them lose weight , buy a Stock aero, bathe in immac and only eat small amounts of porridge... witha carbon spoon
I notice that people have mentioned this further back and I just have a quick but awkward question: I'm not a triathelete as such although I do run every day, cycle every day, do resistance training and rowing (all this 5 days a week) and I swim at least once a week but used to swim every day as well (now going for weight loss so ditched swimming). Anyway, it's all been going very well, I've lost 1.5 stone and am fit and very lean and muscular in a nice way for a lady. Am 5ft 10 and weight 10st 7. But I just did a body fat % thing (I was checking my weight cos I've been ill the last few weeks and not able to get to the gym although am eating less cos of illnes) and it's 30%. Seriously, there is a little bit of fat around my middle cos I can't be bothered to target that area but only a tiny amount. The rest of me is lean except.... I have very large boobs for my size. Well, for anyone's size! I've been ill in the past and lost a lot of weight but still they remain. They've shrunk a bit due to the resistance training but I'm just wondering if that's why I can work REALLY hard and be very lean but still have a high reading. It's a pain because they told me off about it at BUPA and I was saying 'show me where I can lose fat!'. Is it true? Can I blame it on that or am I fooling myself and I need to work harder?? Thanks. E
personally i think if your fit and healthy and feel good about yourself i wouldn't care what some machine says about your b.f %
However if your the kind of person that likes to see results in black and white or like to measure your fitness then invest in a good heart rate monitor (i have a suunto with all the accessories and p.c compatable, but im a real geek, graphs and everything, very sad!) rather than listen to the men in suits, that way you can see for yourself how fit you really are and how you are improving as your traning progresses.
Anyway good luck with the weight loss. 1.5 stone loss is fantastic...
Thanks - I'm still interested to know if it's possibly what's skewing the reading though cos the only other reason would be that I'm deluding myself and am not as fit and lean as I think. Heart monitor is an interesting one - the BUPA lady did comment that I had 'the resting heart rate of an athlete' so, as you say, am def fit. So why does it tell me I'm fat??!
This has been a very male subject so to speak..so, ec, to redress the balance a little..no pun intended...body fat % for women is higher, reproductive fat is I believe the term, & breast tissue will mostly be fat, so if it was a bio impedence test that was showing you as fat..then it will be your boobs that skew it.
The body loses & gains fat where IT wants, not where you want..hence the classic apple or pear shapes...so just keep on keeping on should work things out.
Lady Britspin lost some of her weight purely by dietary manipulation...NOT dieting, but changing things until things went right, & since I cook most of the dinners we have, I know how much she eats, but I also know that we no longer eat much pasta, she eats no cheese or chocolate, no citrus & other bits & bobs, mostly due to asthma & the effects these foods have (not the pasta! thats because of the fat thing), but net result is a loss of weight...and smaller boobs.
On the little printout from the machine it says that recommendations for females are:
22.2 - excellent
26.0 - good
30.1 - average
I don't want to be average! I work too hard. But equally, I'm happy with my shape - not many women complain about being lean with big boobs. So maybe I'll just ignore the print-out. Thanks for the advice. I feel better knowing that it's true that boobs skew it. E
Hi my stats are simillar to yours 10st 4lb and 5ft 11 according to my scales i'm 19% thu from what i understand a ordinary scales can be very inaccurate in measuring body %
i have read thet things such as having a drink of water before you measure can put the scales off..
also apparently scales you stand on measure lower body fat and those hand held body fat measuring yokes measure upper body fat..
i think a calipers are more accurate and if you want to go all out there is such a thing as underwater measuring its appatently quite accurate (though i can't speak from experience)
but would echo what was said above if you feel healthy and fit-sod what a (man-made) device says!!!
Comments
If I may briefly return the subject to body fat....
I have some body fat scales which I use to measure the trend, rather than worry about the absolute figure. So, in my example it might (reasonably) say I am 50% lard one week, and 49% the next. I couldn't care less about the actual number, more that it has gone in the right direction. Same goes with weight.
I am very interested in samutri's research proposal. Maybe legalb could assist with some photo evidence [:D]
Yes, I'm joking, lb. The main point is that trends are better than absolutes, there is no right answer because of body shape and dimensions, and sometimes your non-triathlon lifestyle is important too.
Oh dear. I'm in trouble now. I suggested that people have lives outside triathlon. I shall wax my legs as punishment.
Thanks for the words of encouragement P.I.P I don't feel like such a freak now! It's a shame I am not nearer to Cheshire, I'd take you up on that analysis offer - it sound really interesting
Nice comment BoPo - trust me, you don't want a photo - not unless I can have a body double to stand in for it - preferrably one that's younger, fitter etc etc!!
My reasons for this are, the high intensity long duration training that we go through will change the body composition, fuel burning etc, therefore it is very likely we will become lean without actively trying to loose weight.
Also, and this is the big one, I used to obsess of body fat. It got so bad that my carb restriction got stupid, it started to have a seriously detrimental affect on my training, I used to have serious trouble sleeping, due to my body waking me up telling me to eat more! All I cared about was getting my % down, and yes, it was for the aesthetic reasons.
I am now at around 7-8% thanks to a change in attitude, and the consistent high intensity triathlon training. And I have never been happier since I stopped worrying about what I put in my mouth!
Poor quality training, bad sleep, bad moods etc. Not nice.
Change of mind set.... it's not a belly, it's a FUEL TANK. [:D]
By the way, i'm doing my fist ever half marathon on Sunday in the wonderful Blackpool so if anyones got any advice twud be most welcome, especially on what to eat day before and for brekky...
Also can't back out of the whole waxing for charity thing now either cos McMillans have been across and put posters up, taken piccies, official sponsor forms and everything... two weeks today is the big, painful day... very very disturbing how many people think i should go the whole hog and get back, sack and crack done!!! Even mrs PiP seems to be egging them on!!! and the armpits have also been suggested, i think its just payback for the pain i put people through in spin classes and PT sessions!!... wish me luck!!
No seriously, what I mean is, yes it does matter. We should all strive to be thinner with less fat, more lean, more speed. On the national view this country is not far short of the USA and may soon experience the kind of obesity explosion that has happened there.
But i think if you start consciously thinking about it it becomes an obsession. And with me the obsession started to screw my life up!
I think for elite triathletes the average is 5-10%, i believe that makes them the lowest body fat sporting group on average. I think! don't kill me if I'm wrong! Either way its pretty excessive!
But yeh its ok to carry a little bit, it is nice to have a six pack tho! purely for aesthetic reasons! And also as I am currently only doing sprints, (I dont plan on doing ironman for at least 10 years to so yet!) body fat can make quite a big difference!
"You never hear a skinny person say that % BF doesn't matter!!! I still say 0% is ideal, that fat does not make you faster - it slows you down and you cannot be too skinny or bald!"
I have the dubious benefit of being both skinny and balding, and still don't think that anything below the high single digits is sensible. I would prefer to stay slim rather than put on too much fat, but I am more likely to try to eat more in order to increase my weight and muscle than to starve myself or get to obsessive in the gym in order to get the perfect sixpack.
personally i think if your fit and healthy and feel good about yourself i wouldn't care what some machine says about your b.f %
However if your the kind of person that likes to see results in black and white or like to measure your fitness then invest in a good heart rate monitor (i have a suunto with all the accessories and p.c compatable, but im a real geek, graphs and everything, very sad!) rather than listen to the men in suits, that way you can see for yourself how fit you really are and how you are improving as your traning progresses.
Anyway good luck with the weight loss. 1.5 stone loss is fantastic...
The body loses & gains fat where IT wants, not where you want..hence the classic apple or pear shapes...so just keep on keeping on should work things out.
Lady Britspin lost some of her weight purely by dietary manipulation...NOT dieting, but changing things until things went right, & since I cook most of the dinners we have, I know how much she eats, but I also know that we no longer eat much pasta, she eats no cheese or chocolate, no citrus & other bits & bobs, mostly due to asthma & the effects these foods have (not the pasta! thats because of the fat thing), but net result is a loss of weight...and smaller boobs.
22.2 - excellent
26.0 - good
30.1 - average
I don't want to be average! I work too hard. But equally, I'm happy with my shape - not many women complain about being lean with big boobs. So maybe I'll just ignore the print-out. Thanks for the advice. I feel better knowing that it's true that boobs skew it. E
i have read thet things such as having a drink of water before you measure can put the scales off..
also apparently scales you stand on measure lower body fat and those hand held body fat measuring yokes measure upper body fat..
i think a calipers are more accurate and if you want to go all out there is such a thing as underwater measuring its appatently quite accurate (though i can't speak from experience)
but would echo what was said above if you feel healthy and fit-sod what a (man-made) device says!!!