I was looking at the Focus as well, it's 53/42 on the front so definitely not compact. That's the problem with a lot of those good deals on the net, a lot of the spec is fixed and can't be changed without I guess increasing the price. Planet X are the same (53/39, no option to change). Might have to shop around in the real world, at least you get to talk to someone who knows what they're doing (I hope)
Pacman, a 50/34 would be easier but you would have a difference of 16 teeth betwen the two. As I understand it anything above a 12 tooth difference increases the danger of the chain skipping off if you inadvertently cross chain (correct me if I am wrong folks), 14 is pushing it but 16 difference I imagine there woould be serious issues as to chain length. Oops forgot to mention if you change the size of your big ring you may need to adjust your chain length.
JMurt, the Focus with the 53/42 probably uses FSA Gossamer with Megaexo BB, providing you get the FSA 50/39 or 50/36 Gossamer compact (as I did) with Mega Exo BB (not ISIS) then it is about a half hour job to swap them over, adjust the derailleur and the chain length. You will then have a Standard crank should you wish to use it in the future or you can sell it along with the brand new BB and offset the cost.
Oh just looked at the prices, I only paid £80 for mine, can't remember where I got it now average seems to be about £130 - £140 new. Then of course you need to get the right crank length. Another topic!
There are two things that affect your ability to climb hills apart from ginormous quads
The chainrings on the front with the pedals and your cassette ratios on the back wheel.
A lot if not most road bikes come with a 'Standard' set up e.g 53/42, 53 teeth on the big outer ring and 42 teeth on the smaller inner ring on the front and a cassette with the biggest cog at either 25 or 23.
If you have a 'Standard' it is possible with some set ups to remove the crank i.e. the pedal bits with the big rings and replace it with a 'Compact' which has a smaller set of rings usually 50/39 or 50/36
The smaller number of teeth on the front ring and the bigger the number of teeth on the rear cassette the easier it is to climb.
Both of my bikes (TT and road) have a 53/39 chainring on. I swap cassettes between 11-21 and 11-23 depending on whether the course is very hilly or not. The 23 tooth will come into play if im due to climb anything above 12-15%.
The problem I see with having these small chainsets, lots of gears ie upto a 27 or 28 on the cassette is that when the going gets tough your legs will always give up or you end up going really slow. If you got used to using a bigger chainring it will develop leg power and therefore you will go quicker and when your quads are bursting they will just keep going:)
Im thinking of getting a 58 or 59 chainring for flat courses/Sprint distance and TT's for next year:) Slow cadence and powerful legs over fast cadence, powerLESS legs anyday:)
When looking at new equipment for your bike do the gears ever come to mind? We have so many options out there from 11/23 to 12/27 cassettes or standard and compact cranksets. What do you go with? Not all of us live in flat land areas and more often than not the hills are calling to be ridden. So with that in mind what gearing is best suited for most of us to use? It all comes down to efficiency and cadence plays a big roll in that. Even if you’re not racing and just riding to stay in shape and having fun on your bike a cadence around 85 to 95rpm is ideal and a good starting point for riding on the flats. If you are not sure where your cadence is it might be a good idea to get a basic cycling computer that has cadence on it. These can start at around $40. If you find it difficult at first to pedal this fast don’t worry. Give it a week or two and your body will start to adapt and soon it will become second nature. It may take some time but going a little slower and easier can help greatly.
Now getting into the hills is where gearing becomes very important. A lot of times, unless you’re a fast climber, we find ourselves pushing a hard gear with a low cadence. This is effectively like lifting weights and not very efficient. The problem with this at times is that we are already in our easiest gear! In a perfect world it would be great to have the same cadence as we do on flat gound. Well it’s not always perfect but if we can at least get to 80+rpms our efficiency will go up and take strain and fatigue away from our joints and muscles. If you are using standard gearing, most likely a 53 tooth big chainring and 39 tooth small chainring, a cost effective way to help maintain optimum cadence is by changing out your cassette. The gear ratio I suggest quite often is the 12/27 cassette. This still gives us plenty of harder gears for the flats and decents but also gives us a little relief going up hills. Since most of you are using 9, 10 or 11speed now, the spacing between gears won’t be a huge jump either.
If the 12/27 still isn’t enough help in improving cadence and you’re still grinding up the hills, I recomend the compact crank. This is a different crankset altogether and the big chainring is a 50T and usually a 34t small chainring. This smaller chainring provides us more easier gears that will help make spinning a higher cadence up hills much easier. So instead of having to press hard on the pedals with each stroke you can be pushing lightly on the pedals but much more frequently. As with working on a higher cadence on the flats, this too will take some dedication but the benefits will turn into huge efficiency payoffs. Now if you still want to go hard up the hills you have plenty of gears to do this.
I’m sure some of you are wondering, “what will this compact crank do for my top end speed when I go down hills?” If maintaining a 36-38mph pace you can still use the compact. Yes the 50 is smaller and you do lose some top end speed by going to the compact but by going with a different cassette, you can have the best of both worlds. By blending an 11/23 and 12/25 cassette to make an 11/25, you can have your cake and eat it too. Because when you run the compact with the 50/34 chainrings and an 11/25 cassette you have gearing that is still easier than standard 53/39 and 12/27 gearing. With the top end the 50/11 combo is actually a BIGGER gear than the 53/12 combo. With that you now can spin easier than before up the hills and still being able to push the gear while rolling at 38+mph. Sure it takes some doing but as said before it can be well worth it!
- Nate Loyal Cycling Coach and Bike Fit Specialist
I still feel that varable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear! --Henri Desgrange, L'Équipe article of 1902
When you think of it to deviate from a set up such as that, i.e using derailleurs, is using mechanical means rather than physical might to achieve speed so why the fuss over whether you use a 'Compact' which used to be called a Standard or a a 'Standard' which used to be called a 'Racing' chainset (so I have been told)?
Anyway having said all that I still have my 'Standard' chainrings and one day when I grow up may use them again.
So here it goes, I am delighted that my initial question has provoked a good discussion and becuase I originally posted a comment from Mike at Bridgetown, I am also posting his reply in regards to chain skipping, set-up and cadence ...
If you use the correct front Mech, properly aligned - this is the standard double for Shimano & Sram but for Campagnolo it is a specific mech with the initials CT on it then we have come across no problems. There may be issues with super short rear ends such as those found on out and out TT machines however these issues relate to the length between the chainring and the Sprocket and are equal in effect to standard and compact chainset, this normally comes out as unavoidable chatter when on the inside chainring at the front and the outside 11T or 12T sprocket - this size of gear can normally be replecated by being in the big ring and the 18T at the back.
With regards to those out there trying to persuade people to buy Massive chainring Circa 56T and above my only advice is to look at the really fast Time trialists out there and count their cadence, these guys live in the 110 revs per minute + catagory and they are really quick, 47 minutes for 25 miles (40km) and still under 50 minutes for hilly couses. We are lucky enough to have Stuart Dangerfield as one of our Staff, He wins most of what he rides and it is rarely below 30mph. He runs with a 53 or 54 outer ring and a 12 through block, (1 tooth increases). In my estimation whilst stregth is important it is best when it is applied alongside high cadence, spinning a big gear equals pure speed. Lynne Taylor our other TT Champion and record holder runs slightly larger gears 55/56 T Chainrings and 11 & 12 generally at the back - running on 90 RPM this equates to 28-28.5 mph. Our challenge over this winter is to focus on getting her cadence up to 100 + A loyt of this ability to spin is also based on bike position so there really is a lotto take in.
I do accept that there are fast guys and girls out there running on the big gears but imagine how much quicker they would be if the could increase their cadence by 10-20%.
A simple measure of how effective cadence is is to look at your own ride style, if for instance you have a computer on your bike, when you think you are going along nicely in a big gear pushing hard, drop into an easier gear ideally 1 tooth difference and see the mph improve.
great response, but I would be interested to know why cadence seems to come across as more important than power...
I do accept that there are fast guys and girls out there running on the big gears but imagine how much quicker they would be if the could increase their cadence by 10-20%.
.
I tend to be more than a spinner than a pusher, and I often think the opposite: how much quicker I would be if I could increase my power by 10-20%.
I guess the answer to my own question is that avarage speed over a given distance is a function of power and cadence, somewhere there is likely to be an optimum position and if you increase either power or cadence beyond that point average speed will fall. Each person will have a different optimum strategy based on a multitude of factors such as physiology, psychology, training, set up, course etc etc.
Not every triathelete is a 25 year old rippling with muscle who is single and has no family/job responsibilities or health problems that interfere with training (again not addressing this at anyone in particular).
If I tried to push a 56/11 I would probably pop my already fragile knee. If I could sustain 80 cadence on a 53/11 I could theoretically achieve 49.8kph, in practice it is more like a 53/13, 42.2kph. I have proved to my own satisfaction that I can manage 50/12 @ 90 i.e. 48.5kph and at times 50/11 @ 90 = 52.9 and 50/13 39.8kph without a shadow of a doubt.
For me a 50 works best and a I adre say that for a lot of people struggling with 53 rings that would also be the case so please leave us be.
Comments
JMurt, the Focus with the 53/42 probably uses FSA Gossamer with Megaexo BB, providing you get the FSA 50/39 or 50/36 Gossamer compact (as I did) with Mega Exo BB (not ISIS) then it is about a half hour job to swap them over, adjust the derailleur and the chain length. You will then have a Standard crank should you wish to use it in the future or you can sell it along with the brand new BB and offset the cost.
Oh just looked at the prices, I only paid £80 for mine, can't remember where I got it now average seems to be about £130 - £140 new. Then of course you need to get the right crank length. Another topic!
There are two things that affect your ability to climb hills apart from ginormous quads
The chainrings on the front with the pedals and your cassette ratios on the back wheel.
A lot if not most road bikes come with a 'Standard' set up e.g 53/42, 53 teeth on the big outer ring and 42 teeth on the smaller inner ring on the front and a cassette with the biggest cog at either 25 or 23.
If you have a 'Standard' it is possible with some set ups to remove the crank i.e. the pedal bits with the big rings and replace it with a 'Compact' which has a smaller set of rings usually 50/39 or 50/36
The smaller number of teeth on the front ring and the bigger the number of teeth on the rear cassette the easier it is to climb.
The problem I see with having these small chainsets, lots of gears ie upto a 27 or 28 on the cassette is that when the going gets tough your legs will always give up or you end up going really slow. If you got used to using a bigger chainring it will develop leg power and therefore you will go quicker and when your quads are bursting they will just keep going:)
Im thinking of getting a 58 or 59 chainring for flat courses/Sprint distance and TT's for next year:)
Slow cadence and powerful legs over fast cadence, powerLESS legs anyday:)
When looking at new equipment for your bike do the gears ever come to mind? We have so many options out there from 11/23 to 12/27 cassettes or standard and compact cranksets. What do you go with? Not all of us live in flat land areas and more often than not the hills are calling to be ridden. So with that in mind what gearing is best suited for most of us to use? It all comes down to efficiency and cadence plays a big roll in that. Even if you’re not racing and just riding to stay in shape and having fun on your bike a cadence around 85 to 95rpm is ideal and a good starting point for riding on the flats. If you are not sure where your cadence is it might be a good idea to get a basic cycling computer that has cadence on it. These can start at around $40. If you find it difficult at first to pedal this fast don’t worry. Give it a week or two and your body will start to adapt and soon it will become second nature. It may take some time but going a little slower and easier can help greatly.
Now getting into the hills is where gearing becomes very important. A lot of times, unless you’re a fast climber, we find ourselves pushing a hard gear with a low cadence. This is effectively like lifting weights and not very efficient. The problem with this at times is that we are already in our easiest gear! In a perfect world it would be great to have the same cadence as we do on flat gound. Well it’s not always perfect but if we can at least get to 80+rpms our efficiency will go up and take strain and fatigue away from our joints and muscles. If you are using standard gearing, most likely a 53 tooth big chainring and 39 tooth small chainring, a cost effective way to help maintain optimum cadence is by changing out your cassette. The gear ratio I suggest quite often is the 12/27 cassette. This still gives us plenty of harder gears for the flats and decents but also gives us a little relief going up hills. Since most of you are using 9, 10 or 11speed now, the spacing between gears won’t be a huge jump either.
If the 12/27 still isn’t enough help in improving cadence and you’re still grinding up the hills, I recomend the compact crank. This is a different crankset altogether and the big chainring is a 50T and usually a 34t small chainring. This smaller chainring provides us more easier gears that will help make spinning a higher cadence up hills much easier. So instead of having to press hard on the pedals with each stroke you can be pushing lightly on the pedals but much more frequently. As with working on a higher cadence on the flats, this too will take some dedication but the benefits will turn into huge efficiency payoffs. Now if you still want to go hard up the hills you have plenty of gears to do this.
I’m sure some of you are wondering, “what will this compact crank do for my top end speed when I go down hills?” If maintaining a 36-38mph pace you can still use the compact. Yes the 50 is smaller and you do lose some top end speed by going to the compact but by going with a different cassette, you can have the best of both worlds. By blending an 11/23 and 12/25 cassette to make an 11/25, you can have your cake and eat it too. Because when you run the compact with the 50/34 chainrings and an 11/25 cassette you have gearing that is still easier than standard 53/39 and 12/27 gearing. With the top end the 50/11 combo is actually a BIGGER gear than the 53/12 combo. With that you now can spin easier than before up the hills and still being able to push the gear while rolling at 38+mph. Sure it takes some doing but as said before it can be well worth it!
- Nate Loyal
Cycling Coach and Bike Fit Specialist
[attachment=0:j21cpkqh]Large_Chainring.jpg[/attachment:j21cpkqh]
Cycling up vetoux on one of them would sort the men from the boys!!
When you think of it to deviate from a set up such as that, i.e using derailleurs, is using mechanical means rather than physical might to achieve speed so why the fuss over whether you use a 'Compact' which used to be called a Standard or a a 'Standard' which used to be called a 'Racing' chainset (so I have been told)?
Anyway having said all that I still have my 'Standard' chainrings and one day when I grow up may use them again.
If you use the correct front Mech, properly aligned - this is the standard double for Shimano & Sram but for Campagnolo it is a specific mech with the initials CT on it then we have come across no problems. There may be issues with super short rear ends such as those found on out and out TT machines however these issues relate to the length between the chainring and the Sprocket and are equal in effect to standard and compact chainset, this normally comes out as unavoidable chatter when on the inside chainring at the front and the outside 11T or 12T sprocket - this size of gear can normally be replecated by being in the big ring and the 18T at the back.
With regards to those out there trying to persuade people to buy Massive chainring Circa 56T and above my only advice is to look at the really fast Time trialists out there and count their cadence, these guys live in the 110 revs per minute + catagory and they are really quick, 47 minutes for 25 miles (40km) and still under 50 minutes for hilly couses. We are lucky enough to have Stuart Dangerfield as one of our Staff, He wins most of what he rides and it is rarely below 30mph. He runs with a 53 or 54 outer ring and a 12 through block, (1 tooth increases). In my estimation whilst stregth is important it is best when it is applied alongside high cadence, spinning a big gear equals pure speed. Lynne Taylor our other TT Champion and record holder runs slightly larger gears 55/56 T Chainrings and 11 & 12 generally at the back - running on 90 RPM this equates to 28-28.5 mph. Our challenge over this winter is to focus on getting her cadence up to 100 + A loyt of this ability to spin is also based on bike position so there really is a lotto take in.
I do accept that there are fast guys and girls out there running on the big gears but imagine how much quicker they would be if the could increase their cadence by 10-20%.
A simple measure of how effective cadence is is to look at your own ride style, if for instance you have a computer on your bike, when you think you are going along nicely in a big gear pushing hard, drop into an easier gear ideally 1 tooth difference and see the mph improve.
I tend to be more than a spinner than a pusher, and I often think the opposite: how much quicker I would be if I could increase my power by 10-20%.
I guess the answer to my own question is that avarage speed over a given distance is a function of power and cadence, somewhere there is likely to be an optimum position and if you increase either power or cadence beyond that point average speed will fall. Each person will have a different optimum strategy based on a multitude of factors such as physiology, psychology, training, set up, course etc etc.
Not every triathelete is a 25 year old rippling with muscle who is single and has no family/job responsibilities or health problems that interfere with training (again not addressing this at anyone in particular).
If I tried to push a 56/11 I would probably pop my already fragile knee. If I could sustain 80 cadence on a 53/11 I could theoretically achieve 49.8kph, in practice it is more like a 53/13, 42.2kph. I have proved to my own satisfaction that I can manage 50/12 @ 90 i.e. 48.5kph and at times 50/11 @ 90 = 52.9 and 50/13 39.8kph without a shadow of a doubt.
For me a 50 works best and a I adre say that for a lot of people struggling with 53 rings that would also be the case so please leave us be.