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Ironman distance without the brand.

Hi.

I am commiting to doing a long distance (iron) in 2011 but after looking into the costs etc i dont want to pay the sort of price required to race in a Ironman branded race either here in the uk or abroad.

My question is, what is the best iron distance event that is not ironman branded that a first timer at the distance would find enjoyable? I use the word enjoyable with some trepidation!!!

Thanks
Gary.
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Comments

  • jrhunt78jrhunt78 Posts: 43
    I don't know anything about it myself but I've heard a number of people rave about the 'Big Woody' they also do a half 'Iron Man' surprise surprise the 'Little Woody'

    http://www.blacksheepsportsltd.co.uk/bigwoody.html

    Good luck
  • There is also one in the New Forest (Forestman ?) that's well regarded.
  • andissandiss Posts: 82
    There a few around.

    Check this link.

    http://www.trimapper.com/trical_rdi_eu.htm

    Tip. Dont do the norseman
  • graham33graham33 Posts: 265
    there is also the Kernowman - down in cornwall. Go if you like hills!

    But I know exatly what you mean. I'm doing the UK Ironman this year, but this will be the ONLY branded long distance I will ever do:

    So far, £320 (20 admin fee) to enter
    Hotel £110 - luck got there before the rush
    Fuel, cattery, food etc £100+

    It certainly isn't cheap.

    If i like the distance then i will doing the forestman or Kernowman next year......
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    you can't be an ironman until you've done Mdot..... I will now duck back behind the parapet.
  • TRIumphantTRIumphant Posts: 850
    I'm with Shadowone1, Ironman is MDot, otherwise it;s only an iron distance race. Not that it makes it any easier, or less of an achievement, but snobbery means to be an Ironman, it needs to be an MDot race. I'm in for IM UK, and IM UK 70.3 this year, it's costing a bloody fortune, but I want to do at least one MDot in my time, and then it'll just be other Iron dustance races next year, Big Woody etc
  • andissandiss Posts: 82
    Maybe its time to do rebel events:

    - We set a date and a place.
    - You sort your own support crew
    - 20£ for a tee "MDOT REBELS DOES IT CHEAPER" and 20£ in the pot for top finishers.

    Its an awful cost, be interesting to check the :

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-58/episode-1
  • TRIumphantTRIumphant Posts: 850
    I think some of the guys on TriTalk organise their own events, on an adhoc basis. Swim, bike and run your choice of distance, and transition is the back of your car.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    TRIumphant wrote:
    I think some of the guys on TriTalk organise their own events, on an adhoc basis. Swim, bike and run your choice of distance, and transition is the back of your car.
    Is not that a training session with your mates rather than a race,and something most of us do on a regular basis?

    As for Iron Distance races,the hold a half/full iron distance race up at Aberfeldy each year,alternating between the two,cheap,small field,bloody cold water though.
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    I can only say that I want to do an M-dot cause that relates to something more tangible than doing something which is the same distance but not Mdot branded.

    The achievement is no less no matter which way you do it and with all intents an purposes as Tri says its pure snobbery.

    I've done Abu Dhabi and that whetted the appetite and I'll finishing off the season with IMUK. So when I cross the line and I'm told I'm an Ironman then the smile across my face will be immense. I couldn't imagine the same feeling if I was to do the same event but not branded Mdot.
  • GGBGGB Posts: 481
    I don't think it matters wether its MDOt or not - if you have done the distance in t he alloted time then "You have done the distance in the alloted time" therefore you can call yourself an ironman even if others don't. I think the problem comes where people say how tough the course was and that the one you did, non Mdot, wasnt a proper Ironman ... utter crap if you ask me ...

    I did Litlle Woody last year and I class that as a tough Half Ironman event - I am doing IMUK 70.3 this year to see what all the fuss is about the bike course lol ... foot in mouth possibly. I am also doing IMUK this year but the main reason for this is that several other members of my club are doing it and we can conbine training to get to the event fully fit etc.. if several others were not doing it then I would have done Big Woody instead.
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    GGB,

    therefore by definition after this year you will be an ironman.
  • FirestarterFirestarter Posts: 120
    Ironman is a brandname and is only tagged on to the distance through slang.

    Dosn't matter what races you do if its long distance (3.8-180-42) its "Ironman". Just because some bloke shakes your hand and says "you're an Ironman" does make the extra £££££ seem worth it?

    Give me the choice of Quelle Challenge Roth or ANY other european Ironman (WTC) race and I'd take Roth EVERY single time.

    I can see companies like Challenge taking over from Ironman (within Europe) in the next 5 years, Ironman have a serious strangle hold in USA but many Europeans are getting behind Challenge, and as long as their races begin to spread, will definately pi$$ on The Ironman Brands chips.

    So I would say do which ever event you fancy but if you've done the distance you've done an "Ironman"...
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Do you have a vacuum cleaner or a HOOVER
    Do you wear swimming trunks or SPEEDO's
    Do you use single sided sticky tape or CELLOTAPE
    Do you race an Iron distance race or an IRONMAN.

    Just a trade name.
  • I'll be doing the Outlaw this year, and yet I tell anyone that will listen that I'm doing an Ironman.
    When I finish I will then tell them that I am an Ironman.
    If I tell them I'm an Outlaw I'll probably lose my job!
    If we can move away from being brand obsessed, triathlon will become more accessible and better value. Which means I can enter more races.
    Simon
  • TRIumphantTRIumphant Posts: 850
    You're doing an Iron Distance Race, not an Ironman. Sorry
  • hussler.hussler. Posts: 390
    Loving the comments Jon.E thats hit the nail on the head well and truely.

    If you do an MDot branded race then you can get the MDot Tattoo....if you do an Ironman Distance race then you can not get the tatt.

    Anything other than that you have done the distance. The non-branded events are not any less organised or anything. In fact the Quelle Challenge events such as Roth are faultless in organisation.

    Also in X years time when the Ironman company get bored and sell their rights to the events and another company take it over then will it change the name by which it is known??
  • Jon.E = Agree
    TRIumphant = Disagree

    However, I would love to see the Big Woody tatt.
  • ShaggyShaggy Posts: 140
    A tattoo for the big woody and one for the big beaver together (fnar - fnar)

    Ade
  • bathtubbathtub Posts: 280
    Having competed in The longest Day, The Big Woody and Roth Quelle Challenge, all Ironman distance but not Mdot events, it doesnt matter to me wether people think of me as an Ironman or not, what matters to me is that I've been on the journey and completed the race distance. It is still a proud and self satisfied feeling and something I will treasure for the rest of my life.

    Regarding Roth, in over 20 years of Triathlon racing Roth is the best race I've ever competed in terms of organisation, atmosphere ans support. The support on the Solarer Berg section on the bike course is legendary and is on par with what you see on the Tour de France climbs. Roth used to be a Mdot event but is now part of the Challenge series but it is/was a lot cheaper then the Mdot races. An event I would heartilly reccommend.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvxBClSxVNE

    Good luck to everyone on their Iron journey.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    There may be an argument for saying that completing a none M dot IM race is harder due to the reduced amount of support and feed stations,making you being more self reliant on your own cababilities and not relying on feed and aid stations every couple of miles.

    There are various stories on the origin of the name depending on which book/mag/Internet site you read.But most originate from the quote "when they cross the line they will be an Ironman".
    The first race was not an Ironman race,just an Iron Distance race,yet finishers called them selves Ironmen.Then event is not time/place specific so finish the Iron distance race and call yourself an Ironman/Ironwoman.
    They have Ironkid events.Did they race 140.6 miles ?

    As Hussler,Bathtub et al have said there are better events,just not trade affiated,maybe it is Triathlon snobbery?
    Probably the same ones who would drive a VW ,but never ever a Skoda.

    So you do an Iron distance event,how long can you allow yourself to be called an Ironman.???
    My last was in 2006,I am not an Ironman at the moment,but if I do cross the finish line again,for that split second,I will be again!

    As for tattoos,maybe it could become become a piece of art,seeing what the best design would be utilising none Mdot names.
    A Steelman,having a Cowman with a Big Woody in A Little Beaver,on an Ironbridge?
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    I get the impression that the quelle challenge series are building their own disctinctive brand. A key ingredient seems to be a fast course - so aiming for people who are looking for fast times... Perhaps going for people who have done an IM and are looking beyond that brand. And perhaps representing the next stage in the evolution of the sport - going beyond "doing it" to "doing it fast"
  • FirestarterFirestarter Posts: 120
    Jack Hughes wrote:
    A key ingredient seems to be a fast course

    Really??! I take it you havnt seen Challenge Wanaka or Challenge Barcelona? and Challenge Kraichgau isnt a flat course either.

    Roth is fast, but fast courses is what Challenge is about. They want a viable option for triathletes who want a good, well organised and safe course to race on.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Really??! I take it you havnt seen Challenge Wanaka


    Wasn't that a tv series?
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    by jon.E » 12 Apr 2010 12:36

    Really??! I take it you havnt seen Challenge Wanaka


    Wasn't that a tv series?


    Class.
  • FirestarterFirestarter Posts: 120
    jon.E wrote:
    Really??! I take it you havnt seen Challenge Wanaka


    Wasn't that a tv series?

    Chapeau
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Firestarter wrote:
    [quote="jon.E":1ustitse]Really??! I take it you havnt seen Challenge Wanaka


    Wasn't that a tv series?

    Chapeau[/quote:1ustitse]

    I may not be fancy but I do have my moments.

    Whether it is a retrograde step,or a moment of shear genius,the M dot organisers for Ironman Australia have.
    1.decided to have both Ironman Australia and a 70.3 race held on the same day at the same venue.
    2.In order to reduce drafting,have reduced the size of the IM field to 1000,and the 70.3 field limited to 500.The total number of competitors for IM Australia this year exceeded 1500.
    3.moved the date.And even now it seems not to be set in stone.
    4.Australian residents do not need to have done a qualifying event first.It does not say anything about none residents.

    If this is a sign of what is to come,the popularity of M dot events,may have brought it's downfall.
  • danny_sdanny_s Posts: 235
    I think the MDot brand is really good at what it does, which is selling a product and an image associated with it. People know that the race they sign up for will have the appropriate "spectacle" and hype associated. I'm sure when I decide to go for a 140.6 mile race, that the first one will probably be an MDot or Challenge race because of the support and certainty that the events are run competently.

    As long as you go 140.6 miles, why do you worry about whether or not you can give yourself a title? I saw a guy in the pool last summer with an MDot tattoo, asked him about it. He'd never done more than a half, but he thought it looked cool, so got the ink. It doesn't really matter, it isn't important in anyway other than explaining to other peopel that you've gone a really freaking long way all in one day.
  • md6md6 Posts: 969
    danny_s wrote:
    I think the MDot brand is really good at what it does, which is selling a product and an image associated with it. People know that the race they sign up for will have the appropriate "spectacle" and hype associated. I'm sure when I decide to go for a 140.6 mile race, that the first one will probably be an MDot or Challenge race because of the support and certainty that the events are run competently.

    As long as you go 140.6 miles, why do you worry about whether or not you can give yourself a title? I saw a guy in the pool last summer with an MDot tattoo, asked him about it. He'd never done more than a half, but he thought it looked cool, so got the ink. It doesn't really matter, it isn't important in anyway other than explaining to other peopel that you've gone a really freaking long way all in one day.
    Was it an Mdot or an 'unbranded' 70.3? and did his tat have the 70.3 on it? I've seen a few of those at various events.

    I think my next one will be a challenge event - or as the gf is planning on us moving to Aus, i'll do whatever - IMWA looks good but there is the 70.3 at Geelong which is near melbourne so i may do that.
    Re the IM australia - they have 2 IM's and 3 70.3's i think that both the IM's have a 70.3 in the same place - not sure about the date, and the 3rd 70.3 may be a forerunner to a 3rd IM race there. Then again Aus is about as big as Europe so it makes sense
  • FirestarterFirestarter Posts: 120
    danny_s wrote:
    I saw a guy in the pool last summer with an MDot tattoo.

    One has to be careful with Ironman Tattoos, I had IRONMAN SCUNTHORPE tattooed on my cock which is fine when I'm "on the job", however every other time it just reads IM A C*#* ........

    hey ho...
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