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Upgrading to a Triathlon specific bike

ashcroft121ashcroft121 Posts: 24
in General Chat
Hi all,

I'm not new to the world of racing, I've done quite a lot of mountain biking racing and cross-country running in my life so far. I entered my first sprint triathlon yesterday and finished in the top 20% of entrants which I was pretty pleased with.

I'm interested in my bike times in particular. I am relatively new to road racing but have a lot of experience of mountain biking.

The road bike I am using at the moment is a Giant Defy 4 which from what I understand is a fairly bottom level road bike, albeit one with pretty good reviews. On the sprint course (24km) I was averaging 20.5mph on the race day and that included one 100m climb. The course was fairly flat and there was around 6mph of wind on the circular route.

I have modified the Giant Defy with a set of clip-on aero bars. I was using a Javelin Bell aero helmet and a set of Vittoria Open Corsa SC Evo racing tyres with latex inner tubes. I've had the bike fitted professionally to try and get a more 'tri-bike' setup. They've shortened the stem on the handlebars and fitted a different seatpost to move the seat forward.

The fastest person on the bike route is averaging 25mph so I am clearly a way off that at the moment. I am definitely hooked on triathlons and am considering purchasing a dedicated triathlon bike. The only thing holding me back is I don't want to spend a lot of money on a new bike and find that it makes me no faster at all.

The bike I am looking at is the Specialised Shiv Expert which seems to have been designed specifically for triathlons. I do realise that clearly this bike isn't going to help me to average 25mph overnight, there is still work to do on improving myself. I was wondering roughly what difference I could expect to achieve once the Shiv Expert is properly fitted to me like my Giant Defy is.

Does anyone have any rough ideas?

Thanks in advance to all for your help/thoughts.

Comments

  • gavinpgavinp Posts: 168
    Hi, and welcome to the world of triathlon

    Averaging 20mph for your first race is good. Your mountain biking background has helped to build good strong legs. Obviously, with a more expensive bike and better components these will help with marginal gains - by how much for you at this point in time I have no idea sorry. I would say that your better off (in your first season) to stick with the bike you have and build on your engine. Your position on the bike is very different to mountain bike setup and although it has helped, you are riding in a very different position (obviously).

    There's nothing wrong with looking at upgrading your components for your current bike, or even buying a new bike - it's up to you, though you dont necessarily need a triathlon specific road bike - you could go for any road bike you fancy/can afford to be honest. If you are sticking to sprints and want to getup there with the fast boys then you may want to consider a timetrial bike.

    Hope this helps a bit
  • ashcroft121ashcroft121 Posts: 24
    Hi and thanks for your comments/advice. I'm not someone who likes to spend lots of money without doing research now and it seems that a lot of the more expensive equipment (fancy bike frames etc and wheels) don't seem to make that much difference at all to be honest. Instead I'm going to keep focussing on doing 10 mile TTs and intervals and seeing how much more I can get out of my legs first I think!

    I would feel pretty stupid if I got a fancy TT/triathlon bike or aero wheels and got served in a race by someone without all of these things!
  • ZacniciZacnici Posts: 1,385
    +1 for component upgrades, with patience that can be done by sales or ebay. Then when you decide to get a carbon Tri frame you can swap the components over. My first (alu) tri bike cost £900 but was so well specced that I swapped the components onto my present P2 frame. Having said that 105/Rival are good and anything above that is a lot of money for v marginal gains.
  • ashcroft121ashcroft121 Posts: 24
    Great stuff. Given that I've got aero bars and helmet plus got the bike properly setup for a triathlon fit, what are the best components to upgrade next to help speed? A decent aero wheelset? I was looking at zipp 404/808 they seem to get good reviews.
  • ZacniciZacnici Posts: 1,385
    OK, you have had a bike fit , an aero helmet - best bang for the buck.

    Wheels - First of all clincher or tub?
    My humble opinion is that if you use your bike purely for racing and training/recce rides on a course go for tubs. If however you do a lot of rides whether for enjoyment or to get the miles in as well as racing many people go for clinchers on the basis that they are more likely to get punctures with the increased mileage. Having said that I have had the same set of tubs for 2 Outlaws, 2 Vitruvians, about 20 Sprint and Olympic tris and about 1,000'ish Km in race training rides, about 2000km all told and they are still in good nick.

    V brief pros/cons
    Clinchers -
    Pros; tyres, inner tubes cheaper, rolling resistance improving and catching up with tubs.
    Cons; wheels more expensive and heavier than tubs, can be dangerous if they flat at speed and can come off the rim, can get 'pinch flats' if care is not taken.
    Tubs -
    Pros; rolling resistance currently better, run higher pressures so puncture resistance higher, if you flat at speed they are safer and can even ride when flat. Wheels cheaper in comparison to clinchers

    Re Zipps. I have Zipp Firecrest 404/808 tubs - me likey very much Comparison - just at random Zipp Firecrest 808 tubs £1499 + tyres £110, clinchers £1,699 + tyres £60 + inner tubes £10.

    So you would have to go through 3 and a bit tubs assuming the clinchers never got gashed or wore out - a highly contentious issue and a very personal one. After all Chrissie Wellington did OK on her trusty HED clinchers.

    Clinchers - Flo wheels have a good rep, not sure if avail this side of the pond yet
    Tubs, PX 50/82 £499, Fuerte Bici gaining a good rep

    aargh if I'm not careful going to get dragged into a war - very contentious but I will say - buy cheap, buy twice.

    Anyway - I now open up the floor
  • gavinpgavinp Posts: 168
    ashcroft121 wrote:
    Hi and thanks for your comments/advice. I'm not someone who likes to spend lots of money without doing research now and it seems that a lot of the more expensive equipment (fancy bike frames etc and wheels) don't seem to make that much difference at all to be honest. Instead I'm going to keep focussing on doing 10 mile TTs and intervals and seeing how much more I can get out of my legs first I think!

    I would feel pretty stupid if I got a fancy TT/triathlon bike or aero wheels and got served in a race by someone without all of these things!
    You will be surprised how much a decent bike will do for you. When I upgraded to a decent TT bike a few years back I smashed my expected time by 13 minutes (at Olympic distance) - and I came into T2 with a big cheesy grin on my face I was enjoying it so much. There was a big difference in terms of the two bikes capabilities though (and price tag..).

    BUT, I always reccommend sorting out your engine as a priority and possibly looking to ugrade components as a first step - unless you have the money to spend which is also fine of course. Why not get decent kit if you can

    Have fun!
  • Iron PigeonIron Pigeon Posts: 2
    Responding to this, I think the things you can invest in that will help the most overall at this point are:

    1. Power Meter - If you're riding a Road bike in the 20mph range, and have a professional fit on it, chances are there is a huge amount of work you can do on your engine still (FTP). Investing in a power meter is probably the single best long term training investment you can make for a bike. Any gains you see on a TT bike or wheels are fixed relative to your own ability to produce power, so the benefits in the next year are potentially huge (as the maximal adaptation training range is actually surprisingly small and hard to hit).

    2. After the engine, dialing in the position is of course the biggest gain to be had, but for shorter distances or highly technical courses (hills / descents) the aero bike isn't going to give you the huge boost over a well fit road bike with aero bars that you might expect it to.

    Go to an independent bike fitter and get sized up on a fitting jig and see what your measurements really look like (in an unbiased context) and then start looking for bikes that match your own geometry. I can personally recommend Bike Science in Bristol as a great fitter (and worth the trip), PM me if you want more details.

    3. Wheels - 90% psychology and flash, 10% performance improvement (ish). Assuming you aren't racing a bike that has atrocious wheels on it, the cost of a significant performance upgrade on the wheel end of things is hugely out of proportion to things like a power meter, frame, etc. That being said, the sound of Firecrests freewheeling down a steep descent is utterly brain shattering on the competition, and can be a huge advantage that way. I'd say go with these last.

    I'm staying out of the Tub / Clincher / Tubeless debate entirely though.

    Good luck with it all, mate, and be eternally thankful you have bike handling skills built up from Mountain Biking, they will serve you well.
  • ashcroft121ashcroft121 Posts: 24
    Thanks to all for your opinions and advice. I've spoken to quite a few people about getting a fancy TT bike and pretty much all of them agree that it won't make me much faster than my current road bike setup with aero bars and a professional bike fit.

    I've had a brief look at 2 items I think may help me with training. 1 - power meters like you mentioned, they seem to solve the issue of not knowing accurately how much effort you are putting in as they ignore the effects of wind really.

    2 - a decent turbo trainer, particularly so I can keep working during the Winter months as the nights start to close in.

    At the moment my training consists of the following sessions: -

    1.) 14 mile TT
    2.) 10 mile TT
    3.) 5 mile TT

    I don't tend to do any longer sessions. I'm up to 21mph average now over the 14 mile circuit now and average speed seems to be increasing now I've had the fit done.

    Not really sure whether a Turbo Trainer or a power meter would aid my training more tbh. Weather here is pretty bad in Lincoln and I quite often don't get time to get out as much as I would like due to work.
  • ashcroft121ashcroft121 Posts: 24
    gavinp wrote:
    [quote="ashcroft121":1fl128e4]Hi and thanks for your comments/advice. I'm not someone who likes to spend lots of money without doing research now and it seems that a lot of the more expensive equipment (fancy bike frames etc and wheels) don't seem to make that much difference at all to be honest. Instead I'm going to keep focussing on doing 10 mile TTs and intervals and seeing how much more I can get out of my legs first I think!

    I would feel pretty stupid if I got a fancy TT/triathlon bike or aero wheels and got served in a race by someone without all of these things!
    You will be surprised how much a decent bike will do for you. When I upgraded to a decent TT bike a few years back I smashed my expected time by 13 minutes (at Olympic distance) - and I came into T2 with a big cheesy grin on my face I was enjoying it so much. There was a big difference in terms of the two bikes capabilities though (and price tag..).

    BUT, I always reccommend sorting out your engine as a priority and possibly looking to ugrade components as a first step - unless you have the money to spend which is also fine of course. Why not get decent kit if you can

    Have fun![/quote:1fl128e4]

    hi,

    What were you riding before and after? I'm assuming if it made that much difference you were riding something like a penny farthing before and a Shiv S-Works after
  • gavinpgavinp Posts: 168
    ashcroft121 wrote:

    hi,

    What were you riding before and after? I'm assuming if it made that much difference you were riding something like a penny farthing before and a Shiv S-Works after

    You have no idea how close you are

    I had an old (ebay bought) bike that was ok for my first year of triathlon. I then had a proper fitting and upgraded to a Cervelo P2. So yes, there was a massive jump in all areas of frameset, componenets and bike position. It made a huuuge difference. Still love it now
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