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Help with running pls

GGBGGB Posts: 482
I have only been running for a couple of months and am pretty new to exercise in general. I Have managed to get from 1 mile up to about 2 to 2.5 mile but think I am running too fast and therefore can not get any more distance in.



Vital Stats - am 34 about 74Kg and am running 2 mile in a tad over 14 mins at an average HR of 164 to 1.68 BPM ... but struggle to keep going much after that.



When running I think I am running slowly but I think I need to try slow down so I can increase the mileage.



What am looking for is a bit of advice on how to slow down or hopw to get the mileage up ... I seem to be stuck at one speed at the moment.



Any help and advice welcome pls.



Edit - According to Maximun HR = 217 - (age x.85) my max HR should be 188 even less using the 220 minus age etc .... but I have had peak heart rate at over 192 on one of my better runs ... so again am slightly bemused.





Comments

  • Hi GGB.



    I'm 41, 5' 11" weigh 11 1/2 stone and I've had my HR up to 193 so I wouldn't worry about your HR too much.



    With regard to running too fast, 7 minute miling is way too fast if you can't go for more than 2 miles. If you're having trouble slowing down, just shorten the step. I can't think of any other way to tell you how to slow down. I can run from anything from between 5:45 - 10:00 mile pace so I find it relatively easy to run slowly. Just practice running slowly, that's all I can suggest - sorry I wasn't much help.





  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    You need to build up a base the ideal target being 10kM (6.2 miles). To do this I would advise forgetting about the watch and concentrate on distance rather than time. Pick out a 10kM-ish route that you can do regularly and split it up probably not into uniform mils or kilometers instead use trees, lamposts etc. Then go out and do it in a run/walk way, mentally noting when you walked and when you started to run again, but complete it every time.

    Psychology is all important here. Wear kit - fancy kit at that as it shames you into running more, I would dispense with the HRM as it will vary depending on how you feel and as you get fitter your HR will fall - so it is of limited use. Also it can be used as a very convenient excuse "my HR is too high - I'd better walk".

    This method does a few things 1. It subconsciously teaches you to pace yourself as the back of your mind starts to connect distance and time. 2. You get to increase your distnce and your body gets accustomed to the distance 3. You improve brute fitness and lose weight.

    I use this method for my rowing charges and it works, (but possibly not for everyone)

  • graham33graham33 Posts: 265
    I almost do the same - run too fast - When I run it's about 160 Hr and I want to be down to max 150. but running slower feels unnatural.



    The best way I found is - Run with my wife[:D], It never goes above 140!



  • bennybenny Posts: 1,314
    Most people do this all the time: too fast when they should go slow and too slow when they really need to go fast.

    Training in your comfort pace is easy, but is most of the time the wrong thing to do.

    LSD training should go slower than comfy zone.
  • graham33graham33 Posts: 265
    I was reading 'be iron fit' by Don Fink. There was an excellent bit on HRM and what training zones are.

    Basically said that zone 3 (the one we all normally run in) is the worst, or least training benifit because it's both areorobic and anarobic. He explains it really well and says that since you do an Ironman in the areobic zone (Hr Zones1&2) this is where 80% of your training should be.



    For me zones 1&2 are between 120 - 150



    but as mentioned it's

    1. hard to go that low.

    2. Doesn't feel like you're training hard!



    but i'm trying it - it's got to better than run how you 'feel'
  • JulesJules Posts: 987
    graham33 wrote:


    I was reading 'be iron fit' by Don Fink. There was an excellent bit on HRM and what training zones are.

    Basically said that zone 3 (the one we all normally run in) is the worst, or least training benifit because it's both areorobic and anarobic. He explains it really well and says that since you do an Ironman in the areobic zone (Hr Zones1&2) this is where 80% of your training should be.



    For me zones 1&2 are between 120 - 150



    but as mentioned it's

    1. hard to go that low.

    2. Doesn't feel like you're training hard!



    but i'm trying it - it's got to better than run how you 'feel'



    Interesting stuff. I don't have a HRM yet but I suspect I may run at my "normal" pace (and therefore presumably HR zone) a lot. Does the same principle apply to training for shorter differences? In terms of speed, how much slower would I need to look at if my normal pace is about 8.5 mins per mile?



    I presume there is some benefit to running faster than normal too? Can you incorporate all of this into one run or is it best to keep it separate?



    I do have a traing book (Joe Friel) on order as I have recoginsed I need a more scientific approach to my training rather than just "run the same run as last time and hope it's a bit quicker"!
  • graham33graham33 Posts: 265
    Jules, you can train in the anarobic zone, but this uses the a different energy source and therefore can't be sustained for long periods. i imagine in sprint triathlons more anarobic (farleks and interval running) work would need to be done. The book - which I really recommend. only aims for Ironman's.



    It has 30 programs in there - 10 weeks of which aim at base training, then 10 week of build up (distance & endurance), then the last 10 weeks of peak. there are 3 30 week programs - competetive, average and just complete.



    My wife has done a few weeks on the treadmill- basically 2 mins slow run 2 mins fast run for a total of 30 minutes and she said that road running has been far easier and she can run faster for longer.



    For me I'm going to look at running drills to increase my speed (i do them swimming & cycling!) strange drills like heel raises and high knee kicked. Aparently all these techniques should be incorporated in your weekly running programme!
  • jacjac Posts: 452
    Jules,



    If it's Joe Friel's triathlete's training bible you've got on order it's a good purchase in my opinion.

    I've been working off it (having spent a few weeks to read and digest!) for a while now. It helps you formulate your own training plan whatever distance tri you're doing.

    And to the OP there are plenty of running tips/drills in there. Personally, for base aerobic running training, I have always run for time rather than distance. It sounds as though you need to extend the time on your legs rather than necessarily upping the mileage at the mo. Up it very gradually run by run - without worrying how far you are going. Once you have the base then you can work on the speed.

  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    You can work out your zones all you like..using all sorts of inaccurate/approximate numbers & formulae..or you can find your ironman pace, your oly pace, sprint pace etc by experimentation, experience etc.

    Then spend some time above most in & some below your IM/oly/sprint pace. Coming down to having a plan, having a goal for each session, avoiding falling into the plodding, getting in the miles pace workouts.
  • JulesJules Posts: 987
    jac wrote:


    Jules,



    If it's Joe Friel's triathlete's training bible you've got on order it's a good purchase in my opinion.

    I've been working off it (having spent a few weeks to read and digest!) for a while now. It helps you formulate your own training plan whatever distance tri you're doing.





    Yes it is. Hopefully will have it by the weekend and can have a good read.
  • julesojuleso Posts: 279
    GGB. I would recommend the Runner's World 6-week 5k schedule:



    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=67



    You don't have to start at week 1 if you're beyond that. It uses a lot of run-walk, which I always think is a great way to start. Also, I found that it can help your speed to know that if you run fast for 7 mins you can really recover during the 2 min walk breaks.
  • bennybenny Posts: 1,314
    Just ran 20 k (in pouring rain last half hour [X(]). I'm wearing a HRM, but don't use it during the run a lot. I try to run 'by feel'. On long runs, like today,I try to keep at 70-75% of max HR. I think that equals the zone 2 discribed earlier on. For me 75% is about 143 bpm. Average heart rate for this run was exact 143 (did some pick ups along, hence reached the upper limit average of zone 2).

    I ran slow, cause you have to run slower than comfort pace on long distance, and defo now during base period! It probably will feel too slow, irritating sometimes, but this is your foundation.

  • agent_tiagent_ti Posts: 306
    heart rates all depend on the individual people, some people have natural higher HRs than other. My upper Z2 is around the 174 mark, and I can quite happily hold a bit below this for my long runs. In terms of building up running fitness, just build it up slowly. Ignore distances, because those can change easily with how youre feeling, hydration, wind, gradient etc. Stick to time and try adding an extra 5 minutes every week or two, and you should find yourself progressing.



    And as above, keep it at a nice relaxed pace
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    You are running too fast. What does it feel like? Are you breathing heavily? Could you hold a conversation?



    You want to use the HRM, but to slow you down! - try to go for a run where it stays below 150. Although you won't feel worn out, you will still be getting loads of benefits - strength, improvements to your Cardio Vascular system and so on. Start like this and gradually build up.



    Think about some cross training too - some gym work, rowing machine, exercises with a swiss ball. All good stuff for a beginner, and it will help you to avoid injuries too.



    "Runners World", both the Magazine, and the web site, are really good for starting out at running.



    Another good site is



    http://www.runningforfitness.org/



  • GGBGGB Posts: 482
    Cheers for the advice :D



    I went out tonight and promised myself I would run slower .. felt really slow but I managed 3 miles and was very pleased, could have done a bit more but don't want to push it too quickly - got swimming tomorrow.



    Managed to keep HR under 160 for first 2 miles then it went up to high 160's - overall - did 3 miles in 24 minutes with average HR of 164 - still probably running a bit too fast but felt much easier than my previous runs -



    Thanks all for your help its getting me in the right direction and giving me th confidence to move it forward





  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    You really do still need to s.l.o.o.o.w.w.w.w down... the real danger is that you will injure yourself! If you go flat out all the time, you are not really training your body, but punishing it. And after a while it will break! You will feel frustrated. And you won't meet your goals.



    Really, only a relatively small percentage of your running wants to be at high HRM/effort rates.



    It may seem really boring to have a slow steady run, but it will help you to gain strength steadily, avoiding injuries (especially if you have not done much exercise in recent years). It will also have the most benefits for your basic CV system - and generally provide a really good foundation level of fitness to build on for other activities (swimming, cycling etc.)



    You really do want to try a run with the heart rate nice and low - even if it means that you have to walk for a bit at times to get the heart rate back down! A really good thing to do, if you are just starting out at running, is just to run for, say 10 minutes in one direction, then back again. Keep the heart rate low. Over a period of time you will find yourself being able to get further in the 10 minutes as your fitness/running economy improves. After a few weeks you can increase the time - e.g. to 15, 20, then perhaps 30 minutes - again, just seeing how far you can get. If you have any excess weight, it should start to come down, and you will generally feel better, and, hopefully, be injury free - and really starting to enjoy the feeling of running. Then is probably a good time to introduce some "quality" into your runs, by going a bit fast - again, still keep with the slow steady runs - with just the occasional quality run during the week.



    Then you can enter some races - just to benchmark yourself, http://www.parkrun.com/ is really, really good for this - if there is one near you! Do something like this to get a measure of how much you are improving.



    Train, don't punish, and have fun!
  • Hello GGB,

    I work with a lot of new running members, and the secret is never be scared to go slower to go quicker. If you are new to running, theres a whole lotta work the body has to do to settle in, your muscles are just the half of it! Cardio and breathing can take a while to master, and it certainly isn't going to help running too much out of your comfort zone. Following Danny Dreyers Chi Running, he suggested using a metronome as it will teach you to sink into a better rhythm and maintain a sustained steady pace. It also measures your cadence in strides per minute. all in all it's great for energy efficiency and prevents you from pushing too hard too quickly. Hope this helps.



    Mitchell

    Strideuk
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