Stroke Counting / Strokes per length
Jack Hughes
Posts: 1,262
in General Chat
At the moment, the only reason I have to count strokes is to see how many I can do in a row [:)]. But now that I have mastered the art of being able to actually do a length of front crawl, I can see the need to count my strokes per length, as this will become a key measure of the development of my technique (that, and breathing).
But, do you count the glide (either from the start, or from the kick off at the turn) as part of your stoke per length? i.e. is trying to glide as far as you can a valid thing in reducing SPL. I can find lots of references on the web about SPL - but nothing that talks about the glide part. I've been doing some sneaky observations - starting off at the same time as other swimmers, and having practiced my "superman glide" a bit, I can see that I overtake/catch up the other swimmers before I take my first stroke... so a glide looks like a good thing (obviously, you can only do this once in an open water swim, so I am aware that this only relates to pool based efforts).
So, how does the glide fit in to SPL?
[I'm thinking of placing an order for one of those fingerbob counting things recommended in another thread, as I love counting things]
But, do you count the glide (either from the start, or from the kick off at the turn) as part of your stoke per length? i.e. is trying to glide as far as you can a valid thing in reducing SPL. I can find lots of references on the web about SPL - but nothing that talks about the glide part. I've been doing some sneaky observations - starting off at the same time as other swimmers, and having practiced my "superman glide" a bit, I can see that I overtake/catch up the other swimmers before I take my first stroke... so a glide looks like a good thing (obviously, you can only do this once in an open water swim, so I am aware that this only relates to pool based efforts).
So, how does the glide fit in to SPL?
[I'm thinking of placing an order for one of those fingerbob counting things recommended in another thread, as I love counting things]
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Try swimming golf, I find it to be more focussed than just counting strokes, as it brings in the element of speed, i.e doing 25m in 15 strokes but taking 20 secs, is not as good as doing the length in say 18 secs, but with 16 strokes. The added number of 34 is less than the original 35, so shows an improvement.
http://www.activeplanet.co.uk/scindex.php
G
If you have only just managed one length front crawl, you got alot more things to worry about than how many strokes its taking you.
Build on what you have done, 1 length now try two, then three etc.
Secondly, its work going to a swim clinic, most public pools run these free of charge.
Technique has a big part to play but to be honestly brutal not when you can only swim one length. Start with the basics and work on that.
A thought for you.
If you do a pool based tri and the first person out the pool does his 400 meters in say 6 mins and yours is done in 10 mins.
Where do you think most of that time can be gained back, thats right on the bike or run, the swim is not the most important leg of a tri.( in my opinion). But so many people put to much on the swim bit because its easier to train for than the run or bike.
In the sence that you just grab your shorts and your off, you can have a rest when u want, no one really pushes themself to much in the pool( ok maybe the dedicated do).
Get your bike shoes on or your trainers and put the miles in mate, in the long run it will help you more.
I am a planner. I plan in detail, out far into the future. I do, however, continually revise/adapt/fine tune my plans. I have a three season plan at the moment. Obviously leading up to the Olympics in 2012 [:)].
Currently, I am planning on being able to do a super sprint/sprint pool based event in September, so I am thinking well ahead.
Another key facet of my personality is that I don't do anything unless I can do it perfectly. Which isn't necessarily a good thing...
Don't worry - I'm already going to the local public pools adult lessons. When I have progressed I will then go to my tri clubs novices sessions. When I have further improved I will attend a TI workshop. It's all in the master plan.
Indeed, but I want a simple metric of measuring improvement. I want to stay focussed on technique - not thrashing around for speed!
I'm not interested in the time, I'm interested in what condition when I get out of the pool. Am I completely exhausted after 10 minutes, or very fresh for the next two legs.
I'm age group competitive at running and cycling, so all I'm interested in is preserving my energy as much as possible.
Absolutely - that's why the strategy is to be able to swim efficiently and effectively, rather than fast at any cost. I'm more than happy to loose time in the swim, so long as I remain relatively fresh. I know I will make up those minutes in my better disciplines.
Agreed.
Well, because I can't run at the moment, I am swimming. This last two weeks I have swam more hours than I have in the rest of my life put together! I _plan_ to improve quickly.
Strangely enough about ten mins before you posted this I ordered one too - been meaning to order one for weeks.
I have the sportcount gadget for while now; I would recommend it to everyone. I wear it on 90% of my swim sessions. Definately makes moretime to think about technique, rather than thinking 'was it 43 or 44 now???'.
Im coming in at around the 23 - 25 mark at the minute for around a 28 second length.
And also how much slower is it in a pool compared to open water as ive been swimming my arse off but dont seem to be any quicker this? I was coming in at around the 30 minute mark in open water races last year and really thought with the sessions i would get that down considerably
Interested to know the speed, stroke count and 1500m time for the rest of you.
That sounds about right to me. For a longish (400m+) decent paced swim I'd average 14, goes up for sprint distances and probably down to 12/13 for distance swims (1500m+).
There is a fine line to this though, there will be a point for everyone where the time/stroke count will be at peak balance. Not to say this can't be moved by improving technique and fitness though.
I second that. I managed 15 this morning, but the last one was practically juust kicking for about a metre. Not sure if that counts!
I've heard catch-up is good for stroke length. Is that right?
Im confused
At that level of fitness stroke glide goes away because you can actually sustain the constant power. To a beginner or intermediate swimmer the pro windmilling might look a million miles away from the long slow efficient stroke our coaches teach us, but if you are supremely fit and very aggressive on the recovery then it all starts to fall into place.
(Learning a more aggressive recovery was a light bulb moment for me.... :-) )
for me i dont really ever stop moving forward, i'm constantly pulling myself through the water, it's just a very small recovery. think it's got something to do with holding the water and applying pressure through your whole forearm, using it as a palle rather than trying to use just your hand. my lightbulb moment was reading on another forum (shock horror! i know, i am ashamed[:(]) about imagining you are swimming over barrels and having to use your whole arm to pull yourself over them. so your forearm is parallel to the wall at the end through the stroke
It's difficult to compare pool stroke count to open water but looking at some vids from Hawaii last year the front runners and they're on about 50 strokes per minute. Working backwards say they're doing the 3800m in 55mins that's 1.27 per 100m so 64 strokes/100m.
In a 25m pool swim taking out the push off from a turn and entry into the next I'm probably only swimming 16/17m. So 12 stokes per 17m or 70 strokes per 100m. Only a rough guide but you're still looking at around 65-70 stokes per 100m of actual swimming.
I think the differentiation needs to be made between a low stroke count and a slow arm speed. It's all about the power each stroke brings, if you have poor power in your stroke then doing 12 strokes a length is going to involve a lot of gliding and a lot of kicking and overall going slower. It's all about going further with each stroke, not about a longer glide. At no point should you actually be stopping 'swimming' and gliding, your arm should either be going forward in the water or pulling backwards, never just out in front of you.
Don't know if that all makes sense - it does in my head though [:D]