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What power should be generated by legs in the swim of a tri?

Hey guys,



I had a swim lesson on Saturday.. A lot of possitives, stroke is ok, rotation is ok, breathing is ok..



She said I have a lot of room for improvement, but that Im in a good pos for tri. However the big negative was that I dont use my legs at all.. She said they should be working a lot harder. I was under the assumpion that we keep out legs for the bike and run. Any way she made me do a lot of leg exercises in the water and i was wrecked after it..



My question is. What power should be generated by legs in the swim of a tri? I dont want to be climbing on the bike (my strongest section) wih dead legs.



IK

Comments

  • JulesJules Posts: 987
    Ask three experts and you'll get four opinions...



    The swim coach at the technique session my tri club runs tells us that your legs only generate 10% of your power in front crawl. The advice was therefore not to do too much leg work because (a) there is not too much scope for improvement and (b) you want your legs to be fresh for the bike and run.



    The above seems logical to me, but clearly contradicts what your coach has said, so doesn't help much, sorry!
  • ironkavironkav Posts: 259
    Thanks for input. What you said is what ive read before. All i know is i was extra tired after using my legs over 500m than i would be without using them. Dont want to be like that on race day
  • garyrobertsgaryroberts Posts: 869
    I don't really use my legs for power at all. That's because of my fitness i guess (lack of it). If i do use them i get tired and my form goes to pot.



    I have been thinking about the swim (at sprint level) in a slightly different way of late. It goes something like this. If i put in an extra 50 hours training i may reduce my time by 30-60, and frankly thats pretty unlikely. But if i put the same time in on the turbo, or running, i think the time benefits would be far greater.



    As it sounds like your stroke, breathing and position are all good anyway, why not (at this stage anyway) just get the swim done in a half reasonable time and then make the difference out on the road.





  • ironkavironkav Posts: 259
    HI Gary,



    well done on your tri great results..



    I agree with the logic there.. extra bike and run workouts will benefit me more. The bike is my strongest discipline..



    Thanks

    IK

  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    I agree with all the minimal leg input conclusions, also the expected increase vs time put in across the three disciplines & I hate leg drills...but....I still do them & I have as one would expect got better at them & they knacker me out much less, so even with a minimal power out put, I can exert more out put for the same effort, or same power for less effort, ether will not affect my bike or run but may improve my swim.
  • ironkavironkav Posts: 259
    If i dont use my legs will it create drag effect..
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    ironkav wrote:


    If i dont use my legs will it create drag effect..



    If you stick a pull buoy between your legs you my find you go faster as the extra buoyancy gives you a better position in the water,if you don't kick your legs sink (unless your core strength is good enough) creating an increase in drag.

    It is beneficial in practicing leg work for as you reach the end of the swim leg in the race you should work the legs to increase the blood flow and prepare your body from moving from a horizontal position to a vertical on,and might help prevent that light headed feeling as you stand up.
  • FlavadaveFlavadave Posts: 749
    Worth mentioning an error I made previously with leg kicking... I used to kick more from the knees which it turns out actually slowed me down. The more I kicked the more drag I created and the slower I got.



    Was told to kick from the arse using your glutes and makes a big difference. Don't use much of a kick at all now, just use my legs for balance really.



  • Ron99Ron99 Posts: 237
    I was on a SwimForTri workshop over the weekend (Fantasic - highly recommended), and we had a chance to look at ourselves with the cameras in the endless pool. This was a major eye-opener - I couldn't believe how much effort was going into a kick, and how little propulsion I was actually getting for it.



    We all had problems with our kick, but one of the main things I took away was that frantic kicking is so much wasted energy for very little return. Our coach reckoned 5 or maybe 10%, and only then when you need to sprint. As distance athletes, he said, the kick should be all about balance and streamlining. Watch any of the olympic distance swim replays and you'll see how little the kick comes into it.
  • ironkavironkav Posts: 259
    so we should

    [ol][*]just kick lightly to keep legs up high (keeping horizontal body) and to reduce the drag.

    [*]Kick from the Hip not the knee,

    [*]and not to bother with kicking hard as the gain in speed in not worth the gain in fatigue this keeping legs fresh for bike and run.[/ol]Sounds good.

    IK

  • Ron99Ron99 Posts: 237
    ironkav wrote:


    so we should

    [ol][*]just kick lightly to keep legs up high (keeping horizontal body) and to reduce the drag.

    [*]Kick from the Hip not the knee,

    [*]and not to bother with kicking hard as the gain in speed in not worth the gain in fatigue this keeping legs fresh for bike and run.[/ol]



    Yep - and also (according to the expert coaches)



    1. Dont make the kick too deep i.e. only about 6" from the top of the kick to the bottom. This keeps the feet tucked behind the body and doesn't add extra drag. Again, from watching the film in the endless pool, I could see that as soon as I started kicking deeper (moving the legs further up & down), the legs started to sink due to the extra drag

    2. yep, and keep the ankles loose

    3. yep



    Another good tip I picked up is to wear swim fins for training drills. It's basically impossible to kick to fast with these, plus, you can feel when you are making the kick too deep.

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