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Firstly noticed the home page about colostrum and this reminded me about an article in one of the old 220's. Its got me thinking about the whote supplements business and recovery process etc.

Has anyone used colostrum and to what effect did it work/not work?

What supplements are best to use as part of a balanced diet and do you still use supplements along with say, a recovery drink?



  • I love these - http://www.myprotein.co.uk/capsules-tablets-softgels/vitamins-and-minerals_/alpha-men/ - pretty much all the miconutrient supp you could want

    colostrum is great, a lot of guys i know who have used it claim to have great results.

    Im not big on electrolyte drinks - i havent seen much research to indicate that they do work

    Protein blend (whey, caesin and egg) is my favourite recovery mixed with chocolate milk
  • BmanBman Posts: 442
    I would have to disagree on the electrolytes drink comment. At the beginning of the season (when it was actually warmish) I did a comparison of one race with PSP22 and water and the other with Go electrolyte and water. By the end of the first one I was shattered and went straight into what i recognise as my dehydration symptoms. The second race had none of that and I felt great afterwards. That said, i was fully hydrated before each race and the nutrition strategy was identical. I put it down to electrolytes vs energy supplementation.
  • JellybabyJellybaby Posts: 180
    Colostrum was all the rage in the bodybuilding/lifting community a few years back, but didn't seem to be all that great and so faded. It's making a bit of a comeback now, so i guess either the purification or sysnthesizing process has improved, especially if coma's chums have seen decent results (better than their usual protein/weight gainers?). Evidence is fairly patchy though. It'll be interesting to see what comes of 220's "study".

    I use whey protein and a multivitamin as pretty much my only supps. I make up a recovery drink using chocolate whey protein, bit of casein, peanut butter, a banana and a touch of honey - only after big sessions though. Otherwise just use FGS or a pint of chocolate milk

    Don't really know enough about the electrolyte stuff to comment, although i'd be interested as i think they'll be fairly essential for going long. I'll defer to others with more experience.
  • risris Posts: 1,002
    there was a fairly detailed look at colostrum on the last tri-talk podcast, looked interesting. i'm not sure i'll ever be serious enough to spend time looking over supplements in detail, though!
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    ok so there is a division in opinion then. Electrolytes, maybe, protein maybe, cololstrum, dunno.

    So do we buy these on the principle of the placebo effect then?

    With all intents and purposes, is it more beneficial for me as an elite crapthete to focus on food/diet rather than wasting money on supplements such as protein etc?
  • aoneill69aoneill69 Posts: 206
    http://www.220triathlon.com/news/athlet ... trum-study

    surley a BCTTT member should be on this and give us the low-down?
  • hussler.hussler. Posts: 390
    I have used Colostrum for 6 months and my general concensus is.......

    No improvement in anything......

    Very disappointed as it is supposed to be this miracle stuff but in my opinion it is an over priced gimmick.

    I am now pre load of certain Amino Acids prior to training and can I say WOW these really work for me:)

    I am currently experimenting with different combinations of Amino Acid loading to see which 2 work best together. When I conclude my research I will let you all know whats happeneing:)

    Earlier in the season I was using High 5 Electrolyte to race on and found in every race I ended up with Stomach Cramps.. ... ..
    I switched back to High 5 Extreme with a Nuun tablet in and all of a sudden no cramps at all and im running off the bike so much quicker.... in fact I did a PB on an Olympic distance race on Wednesday....
    36:40 on an off road very hilly 10k after a 50km very hilly bike course (Sherbourne Castle - Part of the Old IMUK route)
  • gingertrigingertri Posts: 277
    i thought i'd put my name down in the name of science - if its free that is! i use NUUN tabs when i swim and now dont cramp, but now feel really bloated instead, in fact someone at work said i had a paunch - i'm only 60kg and have 29inch waste!
  • Conehead you know any good papers/jounals on triathlon nutrition?

    I get most of my info from BB papers.
  • durhamvamdurhamvam Posts: 246
    Hi Coma,

    You could try searching PubMed for what you're interested in - seems to be quite a lot out there after a brief look see (more interesting than doing the figure for a journal article which is what I should be doing ).

    I particularly like the review which suggests using a lower cadence (80 -90) rpm on the bike during the last couple of kms...... I thought it was the other way round????

  • With a background in mixed martial arts and rugby I took colostrum the last time it was the latest big thing to have in your kit bag, which incidentally was about 10 years ago. To be honest I never saw much improvement as I was taking it with lots of other supplements and wasnt really in any position to judge what was and wasnt working. My gut feel though is it's just another snake oil that companies peddle to keep the cash rolling in. Of all the supplements I've taken in the past the few that seem to make any difference at all (and are safe) are:

    BCA (branch chain amino's)
    Good high strenth, good food sourced Multivit
    Citrulline Malate

    Up until recently I've been taking these from 3 independent sources but now I use: http://www.myprotein.co.uk/mp-max/supplements/exceed/

    Overall, pound for pound it's been great. It's defo the only thing I've taken that I genuinely notice differences from, I recover from hard workouts quicker, get colds/bugs/overtraining a lot less and have managed to cut my bodyfat and increase lean muscle very well too. Have a read up on Citrulline if you're curious..it's still a relatively new supplement but looks set to be very popular for endurance athletes due to its ability to aid recovery. Read this for more: http://www.sportingperformance.co.uk/Ci ... Malate.htm

    Just my tuppence worth...I wouldnt want you to waste your hard earned !
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    As a basic novice to triathlon the majority of this stuff is over my head.

    Give me a set of numbers and I'll crunch them no bother.... but this stuff.... in the words of the great Archie MacPherson.....woooooooooooommmmmmmmfffffffffffff.

    I was looking for in simple terms which supplements might aid me in training or races. What was better in recovery etc.

    Is there anyway to breakdown whats going in in layman terms without writing a bible?

    Its turning into a good thread so would be good to keep it going. Very useful
  • Just be really careful what you read about supplements....a lot of so called independent studies are anything but that. Bear in mind it's a mutli, multi million pound business and a new sucker comes along every minute!

    I dread to think of the amount of money I've wasted over the years trying to get fitter,faster,slimmer or more muscular by adding supplements to my diet in the hope they'll be a short cut to what I'm aiming for...when really the only thing that helps is:

    Regular, well thought out specific and targeted training
    A good, clean diet with the right amounts of each food group
    Lots of rest/sleep

    These 3 basics are free (apart from the food!) and will beat any supplement hands down. Now if you've got the 3 basics above nailed you'll do could maybe add in the 3 supplements I mentioned previously just to help you recover quicker and supplement your diet/training. The key word here is "supplement" - thats all they are and they'll never come anywhere near the results you'll see from getting the 3 basics above right.
  • diddsdidds Posts: 655
    our dog drunk a load of colustrum from the dairy farm next door (he stole it basically) and was sick for a week if that's any help!

  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    Beestings makes for a really great yorkshire curd tart.

    Anything else you do with it, apart from give it to a baby calf, just doesn't cut the mustard.
  • TesseractTesseract Posts: 280
    I also remember colostrum the last time it was the new big thing, and then several articles came out which explained it's completly broken down in the stomach, and so is useless.

    Having said that I kinda agree with Conehead, that real world evidence is the best indicator, however the problem there is the placebo effect (but then if that works, then great! hey where can you get a good supply of placebos? )

    I do think studies can be of use, if they're properly conducted, as an indicator of things to try, however the only reliable test is to buy & try. Just make sure you're properly logging your training so you can see if there's an improvement.

    Part of the problem is while our bodies all basically work the same, we are all widely different. This is due to months/ years of the basic nutrition we take in, our individual physiology etc. For example people who eat a lot of red meat don't get as good results from creatine.

    IMHO the best supplements out there just now (aside from vitamin & minerals to get the basics right) are beta alanine, citrulline malate, rhodiola rosea, and possibly cordyceps sinesis.
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    We've had several million years of finely tuning our systems to get what we need from what we consume.

    There are relatively few "magic bullets" that have been discovered - antibiotics would be an obvious example.

    Most tests are performed against extreme cases - i.e chronically or acutely sick, elite athletes etc.

    Most people, even well trained, operate within normal bounds - not at extremes. While some people at extremes may have some benefits, I'm not at all convinced that they have any measurable effects, other than the placebo one, on "normal" people.

    Most of the attention around colostrum now is focussed on it's immune system boosting properties - which is a completely different benefit than the one it was supposed to have 10 years ago.

    And it's also the case that supplements and medicines are used to correct issues that are caused by some other imbalance, rather than removing the original cause - take the suggestions for compulsory consumption of Statins for the other 50s or whatever it is. When the root problem is much more likely to be the prevalence of salt in our modern diets - especially that added by the processed food industry. It's easy to give everyone a drug, than to clean up our methods of mass food production.

    Ooh.. Hobbyhorse alert...

    The really question should be: If you pay more for your placebos, are the benefits increased?
  • TesseractTesseract Posts: 280
    We've had several million years of finely tuning our systems to get what we need from what we consume.
    Yeah I'm still not convinced by that whole argument, not a dig at you, but at the "we should eat like cavemen" approach.

    There are some facts in there, an average person eating a well balanced diet will get the nutritional requirements they need to stay alive.

    However once you factor in intensive farming, storage, nutrient breakdown, environmental impacts, along with the huge stress we put on our bodies training, I would be surprised if anyone's body is working at it's optimal best without supplementation.

    It's great if you can get fresh organic fruit, veg and meat - but I can't, and can't afford it either, so I use vitamins and minerals to top my diet up. Could be placebo, but I know what my energy levels are like, how I feel, recover etc are all way better when topping up.

    On colostrum the fact remains that our digestive system is different as adults, than as children, but it depends on the mechanism it boosts the immune system by I suppose - I'll sit on the fence.. or maybe I'll try it
  • heh . .

    was reading the posts and this BS appeared at the sidehttp://www.cho-yung.com/index5.php?&gclid=CPevj7GLj5wCFaAA4wodzw0EYA

    Im sure ill be ordering that with my next batch of acai berries.

    I am also not convinced by the arguement of mistah hughes
    We've had several million years of finely tuning our systems to get what we need from what we consume.
    With some of the beef you can get these days i'd be surprised if they even seen grass. Nothing is the same - unless you grow it yourself. Would be awesome living on a farm.
  • ShaggyShaggy Posts: 140
    I use pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) it's supposed to help with cold water swims, channel swimmers used to use it apparantly.

  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    I don't put myself in the eat like a caveman brigade, and it wasn't really the point I was making, although I can see why you might think that!

    What I do think, is that the body is pretty good at getting what it needs out of what ever crap you put in to it.

    You have to have a pretty extreme diet (eat nothing but cheese for 6 months) for things to go wrong. And even then it takes a while.

    You can eat rubbish for 50 years before it will kill you. Most men in Scotland eat no portions of fruit and veg a day.

    And, I suspect, following the same principle, that taking supplements doesn't really alter things that much. The body is one great big self regulating system, that is quite resistant to shocks.

    Most research is based on studies that involve feeding people cheese for 6 months, then giving half of them some supplements and concluding that the supplements are good, because some of the people didn't die so much.

    Whoops, I mean: most research is based on studies of extremes - where the body (whether through illness, supreme fitness, or crazy diet) has been pushed out of its normal operating range where its able to keep things in balance.

    So, I don't think you need to eat like a caveman - but if you are reasonably fit, eat reasonably well, and get some sleep, then supplements just won't make that much difference. If they did, they would probably have some nasty side effects too (e.g. steroids and other banned drugs).

    I am a homeostatic man!
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    by Jack Hughes » 06 Aug 2009 16:10

    Most men in Scotland eat no portions of fruit and veg a day.
    jack...... is that an established fact? I eat tonnes of fruit and veg. Certainly around my office (when I'm afforded the luxury of being in the office) eat fruit.

    If you are referring to the social classes and the scummy areas then I'd agree but I can't say that comment is generic. Even the word "most" is ill used.

    Sorry buddy can't ageed with you on this one
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    I was mainly trying to pull Coma's leg. Didn't mean to upset you! There is an element of truth in it though...


    You are right in that it correlates, as does most obesity/diet related issues, with deprivation. Obesity is just another form of malnutrition.
  • shadowone1shadowone1 Posts: 1,408
    No worries.

    I actually, looking back at what I said may have jumped the gun. In Scotland, peoples diets are appalling, coupled with drinking culture that exists its no wonder there is an obiesty prob here.

    I walk down the town and look at the size of people and think to myself..... why? Why kill yourself like this.

    One of the reason I decided to get fit, by doing the swimathon was because I personally wasn't happy and had to change. Glad I did, if only the rest of the fat B's would do the same.

    Bit of rant there but hey its just how I feel.
  • TesseractTesseract Posts: 280
    I get what you mean now Jack, but would still disagree in terms of sports. I think there's a wide difference between getting enough to survive and getting enough to perform optimaly (or however that's spelt).

    Some examples:
    > Insufficient electrolytes leading to dehydration/ cramp - correct amounts lead to increased performance (relatively, not as "magic bullet")
    > carb loading increasing time to exhaustion - insufficent muscle glycogen resulting in bonking/ hitting the wall

    I think you're right that the body is very clever at getting enough from limited sources, however what we're discussing isn't survival it's improved performance. From the books, articles and studies I've read there is an optimal range of nutrients that will support your body working at it's best. Under this and long term your health may suffer (may), and you're right that in some cases going over can lead to more severe health problems (eg iodine , chromium, vitD, etc).

    ...but I think S11's query was more about the "wonder" supplements, as his diet is pretty good. I also agree that many studies are flawed, however over time you can start to get a feel for whether a product is worthwhile, due to a weight of studies and anecdotal evidence - but it still comes down to giving things a try to see if they work for you.
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    I think we're splitting hairs now.

    I was specifically talking about the wonder supplements - colostrum, creatine, vit-C tablets, HGH, eye of newt etc. etc. which somehow magically transform some aspect of your physiology.

    After a couple of hours of hammering yourself in the sun, then getting a "recovery" drink or whatever inside you will do wonders. Use them myself!


    But, I would say that these are often overused. I don't think you really need to worry about these unless you've been exercising hard for > 1 hr. In the gym that I go to, there is a vending machine, selling bottles of fizzy pop labelled as isotonic recovery drinks. There are also a lot of unfit, untrained, obese people, having a go. Having a go usually means not even breaking a sweat - peeping at the displays on the equipment reveals that they a burning calories at the rate of around 100 an hour. They usually using the equipment incorrectly - "Stepper Abuse". Invariably, the are swigging from one of these high calorie sugar rich drinks. At the end of the session they will have consumed more calories than they have burned.

    The fizzy pop vendors have, over the last few years, had their brands tarnished: all that pop guzzling is now associated with type II diabetes etc. Their vending machines are being chucked out of your kid's schools faster than you can say "Jamie Oliver". In a piece of whizzy brand re-engineering, they dropped blue colour into them, poured them in a "sports bottle" instead of can, relabelled them isotonic, recovery, and lots of other technobabbly words, and, heave-ho, the vending machines are now in the gyms. Oh, and they cost 50p more.
  • TesseractTesseract Posts: 280
    Totally agree on your last comments. I couldn't figure out why I was getting cramp a lot recently, then realised I'd switched to using lucozade sport for my fluid replacement. Switched back to Gatorade and I'm fine again...
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