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Iron Man switzerland

treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
in General Chat
Hello , I'm new to 220, triathlon & this forum so tolerate my ignorance. Anyway I've entered IronMan Switzerland and would appreciate any kit advice especially about the cycle - gearing, aerobars or not, aero helmet or not ... and if so what helmet?
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Comments

  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    The swiss ironman will be my first long distance event so i am pretty clueless too.



    i have downloaded the course and there are a couple of decent hills and one called "heartbreak hill" so gearing ratios my need to be changed. the run looks to be pretty flat as it runs along the banks of the lake.



    i am lead to beleive that there are alot of firemen from up and down the country doing this event, some of which are ironman veterans and so i suppose we could plea to them if any of them are out there!?!?!?!!?[:D]
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Hi, I have done Ironman Switzerland twice,the swim is pretty flat unlike the bike course,but standard bike gearing should surfice,as you have downloaded the course you should realise that there are only 3 hills its the second one that gets me as it is very drawn out but you should hit over 50mph on the descent.There is very little shade so sunscreen is a must if the weather is forecast to be good,2 years ago it hit 35 celcius.It is well organised the pasta party/awards meal is held some way away from the event centre.Any more questions let us know and I will try to help.
  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    thats great jon.E, thanks.



    was i right in summising that the run is flat too?
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Steveo,yes it is flat apart from the odd undulation as it weaves around the parks and lakeside,the aid stations are well stocked ,large numbers of spectators all around the bike course.Think comfort rather than speed,don't race against others race yourself to finish without having an IV drip stuck in you.If you pass someone meandering on the run/crawl chatting with the spectators don't laugh it is probably me!!!!
  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    Jon.E - by that i take it that you are doing it again next year?



    crawling will definitely be a fixture for me.



    this will sound like a completely amatuerish question (which i am so it is ok) but the aid stations where you collect a bag of goodies? is this bag provided by the race or is it one you bring and place at the station that you think you are going to need it?

    what do you put in it? sandwiches, energy drinks, tea, coffe, doughnuts etc
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Thanks for all the advice and points of view. Its good to know that I won't be the only beginner taking on the ironman in June. Yesterday I left my bike in for its build up - I decided to use an aluminium Principia triathlon frame & forks rather than a Cannondale or the various crbon options ; mainly because I 've ridden the road version on all-dayers through the Dolomites and I know that it's an excellent frame: It's fast, climbs well and is comfortable if equipped properly. I'm putting corima aero wheels record groupset, and a USE aero seatpost with a selle slr saddle. The only thing I have not finalised is the handlebar set up. At the moment I opting for a syntace stem, aerobars and tribars with oval levers but I'm open to advice on this. Any gems?
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Steveo,the aid station where you put your own goodies is the special needs station,you provide your own bag and own goodies whatever they may be usually the nutrition is the stuff that you have been using whilst training.Personally I tend to just use the aid stations.As it is a multi lap course you will pass the special needs a number of times.There is no such thing as a stupid question particularly after the amount of time and money that you are investing.Providing work doesn't get in the way I will be there for the 3rd time,I did Austria this year but the swiss course is way better.
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Jon E its good to see that a "swiss vet" is advising us - another (possibly stupid) question : does the fact that the run, as most IM runs are, a 2 lap course play tricks with your mind or is it actually an advantage? I have the opportunity to train on a 10kM circuit should I use it and do laps of it or just go and run anywhere?
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Treefrog,hi in short the answer is yes as distances compress and expand and as the route will be unfamiliar you can confuse yourself by thinking too much about it.Different factors such as heat,rain(if your lucky),stomach problems etc will affect your mindset.I try too break the run/walk/crawl down into shorter distances when I start to struggle (usually just after I have stepped or fallen off my bike)e.g.s are run between aid stations then walk for 1 min whilst you eat/drink/throw up so it becomes repetitive,or run 5 mins walk 1min etc.Regarding a 10km route this is personal preference my problem is being able to run strongly after getting off the bike.Let me also clear one thing up I am not that good at this Ironman lark I just enjoy the whole experience.My times are between 13 and 14 hours.Hope this helps.Jon.E
  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    Jon.E - keep the advice coming, any trivial little point that you might think not wirth mentioning is always worth mentioning.



    13-14 hours!! as long as i am over the line by 16:59:59 i will be a happy little boy.



    treefrog - that sounds like a good set up for your bike. i have a full carbon dolan palloatta with full integra and vuelta wheels. the flight deck is TT noting daft as ran out of cash to put carbon on there. although, i am hoping to upgrade the wheels before the race.

    in realtion to training - the guy i am training with likes to break the larger distances down as it gives more acheivable immediate goals. do the course you have but do one lap and do it well then build it up to two laps then three etc. just plodding for 40km is going to bore you into submisson and make you hate what you have tried so hard to acheive.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Steveo and Treefrog if you want bits of trivia here goes,DO NOT RIDE ON THE TRAM TRACKS,the tracks are covered for the race but if you go for a ride before take care as a 23 bike wheel fits nicely in the gap once in there is a 99% chance of coming a cropper.The water is very very clean and warm enough to swim without a wet suit,there is a public park with a number of accesses to the waters edge for practice swims.On the swim leg at the turnaround/finishtry to swim in the centre of the channel as it is very shallow at the edges forcing a very shallow stroke or breaststroke.If you have not booked your accomodation try to shop around as much as possible some hotels will give a discount to competitors even tho' they are not on the Ironman accomodation website.Do not worry about the time if you just want to finish (I suppose that you both are after that elusive slot for Hawaii)You have 2h30m for the swim which should not pose a problem,if you use the full time you have 8h for the bike which is an average of 16mph so leaving 6h30m for the marathon which is an ave of 4mph (a fast walking pace) easy when you break it down isnt it.Never pass an aid station without taking something.When I first did the Ironman a made the mistake of running passed some after the last timing mat which is about 150m before the finish so my finishers photo has me with someone elses name on the display above my head.Hope this helps If I think of anything else I,ll post a reply any questions let us know.Jon.e
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Once again thanks for the advice - you never see stuff like avoid the tramlines in the official literature. I've notched up my training and have increased my run distances to 20km - doing it as two 10km laps, however yesterday as a prelude to gastronomic over -indulgenge I went out for 2hours all at 147 -155 bpm, all very managable and filling me with confidence for 6 months minus 2 days!

    Has anyone got any advice for the swim - I have never swam in open water and its my weakest discipline; when should I start open water swimming? What are the key things for a smooth trnansfer from pool swimming to the open water?

    ps Happy new year to everyone and keep up the training

  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    i actually prefer open water swimming. get a little a hole in the pack or move to one side and just do your own thing. pool swims annoy me terribly, all the passing and clothes lining that goes on as people duck under the ropes and clamber into you as you still trying to do your lengths.[:@]



    i am not a very good swimmer either but as long as you can relax in the environment and you know you have swam that distance in the pool then you can transfer it to the open water.



    All the best to you all for the coming year!!



  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Seasonal greetings to you both (Treefrog and Steveo).The open water swim is a love /hate relationship with me.The only open water swimming I do is when I race as there are not that many facilities for it where I live.So Treefrog the best suggestion is to find a couple of low key open water races where you can experience the bun fight or melee and try out your race pace for the Ironman (do not use any piece of equipment that you haven,t used before it could ruin your day).On race day aim for open water ,swim on the outside ,take the bouys wide if you can, broken ribs/lost goggles/unzipped wetsuits are not unusual.If open water swimming does bother you start at the back and relax.Yes pool swimming is boring I train in a 14m pool ,7 strokes and turn 7 strokes and turn ,brain numbing or what.Have a great New year.
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    At the risk of making this thread our own semi-private blog cum website - Once again thanks for the morale boosting advice - I took the plunge today and actually swam 4km (160 lengths) in a pool; however having to deal with coke fuelled children, floating adults, and indifferent lifeguards it may have been a good simulation for thereal thing! Anyway there's 20 miles on the cards for tomorrow (beer consumption permitting) keep in touch and keep up the stream of advice, anecdotes, and support
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    It is amazing what how ones mind wanders when out on a run in the cold and aamongst my old brain freezed head I thought of something else,Suncream high factor and waterproof also (and I know it is technically against the rules) but if you have a family member/partner/club mate with you but not racing have them carry some incase you start to suffer on the run ,as the run is a multi lap one have a prearranged vantage point in the shade.The organisers last time provided bike covers for the transition storage as they are racked the day before,if it is hot the covers act as greenhouses and if you have inflated the tyres to maximum there is a good chance they my blow off their rims particularly Tubs,so inflate to max on the morning(it is funny provided it is not your bike).Unlike other Ironman races the Swiss one did allow you to keep all your swim/bike/run gear in transition whereas the others make you collect your bags after each discipline.Treefrog you didn't say whether it was 20 miles run/bike or swim hope the alcohol numbed the pain.
  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    i think we have definitley made this our own little blog site.



    JonE - i am a little confused, how can you clear your stuff between each discipline?
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Steveo,Hi,If they run the same system as they did in 2003 and 2004 you just pile your stuff by your bike and collect it all at the end.Similar to you normal short/olympic event.Both the uk and Austrian events run clean transition areas where the only piece of equipment is the bike and you use changing tents where you pick up and deposit your wetsuits/bike gear/run stuff between your disciplines.Hope this explains it better I prefer the swiss method because otherwise you have to queue after the race to collect your gear which is the last thing you want when you just want to lie down and throw up(queueing time after Austria 50mins+......not funny)
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    I went to Austria with a friend in 2005 and for a supposed efficent nation we found that queuing system really annoying, in the end I ended up waiting for the bike - however the thing that struck me was that the queue stradled the running course which must have been offputting to those still out on the course. Anyway I did the 20 mile run , well 30.1km (a little short of 20 miles) in 2 hours 33 minutesheart rate was 156 average (too high) and I was quite tired afterwards. Enough of this posturing I need advice on hotels.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    2 hr 33mins,best I start training as it looks like I'm behind the drag curve.Regarding Hotels the ones recommended on the ironman.ch website are some way from the start they offer transport but at times that may not be convenient to you,the advantage tho' is they will provide a very early breakfast on race day for athletes.I have opted for a hotel nearer the start but slightly more expensive I really do not want to walk more than 26.2 miles on sunday.The other advantage of nearer hotels is you will have to visit the event centre a couple of times,for registration,briefing,bike racking etc.If you are driving have plenty of loose change for the parking meters.I don't have my hotel details to hand but should be able to post details in New year.
  • RobRob Posts: 209
    Hi Guys, sorry to butt in on your forum here, but I was reading it with interest as I've entered for Sherborne this year. Wasn't it IM Switzerland last year where they banned wetsuits as the water temperature was so warm? I could be wrong, I don't want to panic anybody! But the website says if the lake temp is over 23.9degC then it's no wetsuits. Good luck with the training.
  • Rich_CRich_C Posts: 152
    Rob wrote:


    Hi Guys, sorry to butt in on your forum here, but I was reading it with interest as I've entered for Sherborne this year. Wasn't it IM Switzerland last year where they banned wetsuits as the water temperature was so warm? I could be wrong, I don't want to panic anybody! But the website says if the lake temp is over 23.9degC then it's no wetsuits. Good luck with the training.



    Ive just had a look at the website and it does say that they test the water an hour before. Thats out of order IMHO!



    Its a bit weird though as it does say that the promotor can overrule this and allow wetsuits if they see fit?



    Im doing the Lanzarote and their website say the water will be 22.C and thus wetsuits are allowed.



    Ill be honest, its my first triathlon and theres no way id risk going round the first Bouy 'mad crush turn' without a wetsuit. get kicked in the head, KO,ed and end up on the bottom. No way!
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Regarding wetsuits,due to the water temperature being high it is always a last minute decision from the organisers in 2003 the allowed the option of etsuits or not,2004 they were compulsory but the do keep the competitors up to date via the tannoy system.The race is earlier this year so I would think it will be a wetsuit race,even with the excess blubber I carry around it was still cold for me in 2003.
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Hello, and Happy New Year to all! Just a couple of points on the wetsuit issue. Firstly why would organisers ban wetsuits? Secondly after going into the official photographers web page (ASI Europe....I think) there were photos of swimmers albeit on land in wetsuits!

    Personally today was not a good training day - I did a 5.5 off road mountain race today and was over 6minutes down on my last years performance, and to add insult to injury the alltime course record was broken today; I put it down to the 30 kmer ,5 extra kgs and a certain amount of over celebration,back to the monks life for me!

  • Rich_CRich_C Posts: 152
    Hi, I just did a google "picture search" and there were a few pics of the 2006 start and wetsuits were used.



  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    good day to all and welcome to the new faces.



    training over xmas has been a disaster for me. the only highlihgt was that i got a turbo as a pressie. i had a lsight accident before xmas and so damaged my neck which halted the training so playing catch up now.



    treefrog - i have booked my hotel through nirvana europe and have opted for the one just outside the town but has the benefit of other things to keep the missus interested!!



    i hope and pray that it is a wetsuit race as i need that extra buoyancy!!
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Sorry to hear about your neck Stevo I hope it gets sorted out soon. As regards the turbo might I reccomend Motorhead as atraining partners.

    Over the Christmas period I got a layer of natural bouancy - which accounts for the slow race times and the inspiration to run and swim long distances. One of the main reasons I wnt it to be a wetsuit race is that I bought a new wetsuit for the race and I want to use it!!
  • steveosteveo Posts: 69
    i think i will get another year out of my wetsuit and then get a new one for xmas next year.



    motorhead??? more of a rage against the machine man myself. still it is all ROCK i suppose.



    treefrog - i get the impression your a former cyclist turned triathlete, with this in mind can you kindly advise on technique? i have one leg that works like a piston (this is good i am lead to beleive) but the other just kind of does its own thing?



    any ideas?
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    I'm a sculler trying to kick the habit (unsuccessfully!!). I wouldn't class myself as an expert cyclist - I've never raced properly, and the end f each season I'd go pass bagging in the Dolomites, and I have a bike problem in that I blow lots of money on bikes & cycling kit!

    Anyway regarding your piston-like leg and the "redundant" one I concentrate on keeping both legs loose, and make circles with the legs as I pedal - it might help to give extra thought on the up stroke of the "redundant leg"? Also I tend to pedal with both feet pointing downwards, and tend to prefer low gears and a high cadence on anything except a flat piece of road. Hope this is of help!
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Another question for you all to consider is ... How much has/will Ironman cost you? I just shelled out £200 last night for swimming pool membership, and next week the bike will be ready (I shudder to think!!), and I've yet to pay for accommadation. I reckon when I account for EVERYTHING I'll not have much change out of £3000!
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