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I am thinking about buying Newton Trainers??? Can someone can help[8|]

I am currently recovering from Tendinosis and part of the treatmet program is to strengthen my calfs which is what I have been doing - I am also a medium/severe over pronator.

Will the Newton trainers destroy me or help me avoid further injury??? In particular I am thinking about my over pronation, will this be nutralised and possible calf injuries. I don't really care about run times (although going faster would be nice) the real benefit I want is to be injury free for a whole season - a big ask at the moment[:@]

Sorry if this has been discussed before - I had a quick look and couldn't find any threads


  • TommiTriTommiTri Posts: 879
    Hi matey, can I just ask is it the Achilles that was the problem, and is it definitely tendonosis as appose to tendonitis. Tendonosis being a degenerative and progressive condition, and tendonitis being an acute reaction to overload of the tendon.

    I think its more likely to be tendonitis as you are recovering from it, so I'll go with that. In regards to the newtons as you know these are designed to kind of force you into forefoot running. This puts a hell of a strain on your calves, as it requires them to act as shock absorbers instead of your knees. Which is great in theory as it should sharply reduce the incidence of knee and ankle injury. However it does require strong/injury free calves, and I would be a little worried that due to your recent tendonitis you may cause too much stress to the Achilles/calf region.

    In regards to the over-pronation newton as well as all other proper running companies provide shoes which provide extra medial support for over-pronators. Whilst it wont actually stop you from pronating it will help to reduce the level of pronation and protect your foot against injury when you do pronate.

    Personally i really don't think newtons are a great idea for you at the moment. You would be better off getting some good quality motion control trainers, i would recommend both asics and saucony. I would wait until your tendonitis has completely cleared up before going for the newtons.
  • bennybenny Posts: 1,314
    Hi bunong,

    I think the following thread is about it: http://forum.220magazine.com/tm.asp?m=24220

    You could ask Britspin about it in PM if any specific questions.

    I bet he'll be happy to answer them with the necessary sarcasm alongside![;)][image]http://forum.220magazine.com/micons/m6.gif[/image]
  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    Wounded! Sarcasm.....how dare you....Anyhoo, the experiment is suspended as my knee hurts..not as a result of Newton use, prior pain....very sharp pain on inside of knee..intermittently...please don'y say I ned an arthrosterwotsit.
  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    .........and wallowing in self pity & righteous indignation meant I did not answer the question...I would hold off buying Newtons until a full recovery is made, as mentioned on the other newton thread..not much support from uppers or soles if you have a motion control need. I would strengthen calves, ankles & feet with an additional focus on ankle mobility before I tried Newtons
  • bennybenny Posts: 1,314
    SORRY, Britspin, Really SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

    Oh by the way, you forgot to include Porridge, red, expensive and carbon in your answer to bunong.

    Are we trying to ditch that beautifull and very true statement????

    Please dont forsake us

  • bunongbunong Posts: 49
    Thanks for the advice, I guess it was what I was thinking anyway re the wait for the Tendons to clear and strengthen my calfs before trying the Newtons.

    Regarding Tendonosis/Tendonitis I have swelling of the Tendon sheath on both legs - its nearly gone albeit it is still uncomfortable first thing in the morning when I'm a bit like an old man. I currently run 8 miles happily at 7:30min pace after which I stretch and ice for quite a while.

    I currently use Asics motion control trainers at the moment and really like them. What I was thinking is that when I am recovered will the Newtons protect my calfs as they would gain extra strength just by using the Newtons??[8|] I would also start slowly and build time/distance as I know I have a weakness in this area.

    The last two seasons I have had various calf/tendon injuries which occured just as I started biulding up speed work. Both seasons I survived the runs rather than raced them, which drives me mad.

    If Britspin can recommend some Carbon Tendons and Calfs then I'm buy them what ever the cost - can they have a clear varnish finish so I look cool??
  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    I have resaerch that suggests that coating ones calves (after icing) with a carbon/porridge mix will strengthen the tendons & muscles, the porridge acts as a carrier for the carbon to diffuse across the outer skin layers & become one with the tissues & structures beneath. If applied with a red carbon spatula available at extra cost, but well worth it I think, then the effect is increased by between 10-20% depending on the absorbtion that your skin/blood type allows. Eating the carbon porridge mix is less effective on a target area such as yours, but will affect all structures, gradually increasing your carbon fibres.
  • bunongbunong Posts: 49
    If you apply the carbon porridge mixture in strips - go faster strips, will this improve performance even more? The significant area for performance gain any athelete is looking for is around T1 or T2 where the crowds are greatest, round the corner a rapid reduction in performance is immaterial as no one is there to see it...

    Would anyone agree with my logic about the Newton trainers increasing calf strength and therefore reducing the risk of future injury or is this an over simplification??? At £120 a pair it would be an expensive punt especially when you think how much Carbon Porridge you can buy for that money.
  • TommiTriTommiTri Posts: 879
    well, the idea behind newton trainers is that they try to force you to run on the fore/midfoot, and discourage heel striking. Maybe in the long run when your tendons have healed the newtons would be a possibility. But you don't need newtons to run in this way, you can practice forefoot running in any pair of trainers, i just think that newtons can help you understand what this type of running feels like so it helps you run in this way.

    As newtons try to force you into running this way immediately (hence why most people will get calf pain with their 1st few uses) they would not be a good idea for you at the moment.

    As I mentioned above in a round about way the newtons could help teach forefoot running, however i think this is better done by a good coach if you have access to one. I guess yes the newtons could strengthen your calves, and would probably reduce your injuries in the long run, but its not the trainers that are doing this its the style of running.

  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    Good call Tommi..& I like the go faster porridge/carbon stripes..best way to strengthen calves & practice forefoot running & improve speed, stamina, strength...run up hill, that is something like how it feels to run in Newtons & when they feel 'normal' on your foot.
  • bunongbunong Posts: 49
    Thanks guys for the advice. I like the running up hills business which I plan to start very soon - one problem I have is that I live in Cambridgeshire so finding a hill is a challenge. The closest thing to a hill within a good three miles from my front door is the A14 flyover[:@] Still just means I will have to run a little further to do hill work...
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Any more updates on the Newtons?
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    Rather spookily, there is a big feature on the Newtons and Pose running in the latest issue of 220, which hit me doormat yesterday. Just in time for me to take to the pub and read it.
  • Phil TPhil T Posts: 49
    Hi there I'm Phil and I'm a podiatrist and my main area is biomechanics. Can I ask who told you you over-pronate? I ask because I'm not very trusting of a lot of the running shops (and podiatrists and physios!) out there when it comes to diagnosing excessive pronation. Personally I would not recommend motion control trainers unless someone was maximally pronated. The word pronation puts fear into people. Its a natural movement and provides shock absorption which the foot needs especially for running. Just like fat in a diet, its essentail but too much is not good. Get yourself to a good podiatrist who specialises in biomechanics. Call them and ask them questions. See what methods of assessment they have. Its not all about video cameras and pressure plates. Some of the best bio specialists are in the NHS because its their interest and they are not there to make a pretty penny from selling you orthotics you don't need.

    Can't really comment on Newton trainers just yet as they are that new. I'd need to see them, read research etc etc.

    Anyway sorry if I'm ranting

  • Newton trainers, at 120 quid you must be made of money Chrissie Wellington runs in Brooks T5's at 45 quid and she hasn't done so bad!!
  • Hello bunong,

    I recently had the op to try the Newtons out (I work within Video Gait Analysis as a Performance Analyst), and as primarily a flat footed heel striking pronator, I was a tad sceptical whether these trainers could rescue me from the perils of the usual heavily cushioned motion controlled trainers that I prescribe myself. As it happened I was very suprised by the Newton Motion range. As far as i am aware, the Motions were designed for the more overly pronated foot type, it has a mid tarsal post which would prevent you from rolling over. Regarding my heel strike, the 'actuator lugs' seemed to transmit a message up my brain to prompt me to lean forward and use my body weight more. That way my foot didn't have time to dorsiflex fully and I found myself landing on the mid foot. I can see how it will take time to master, plus a strengthening plan for the calves is a must. Eccentric loading is the true way forward, plus a standing calf raise with a bar across your shoulders. Also invest in a 'foam roller' to help release the muscle tightness that will occur when 'evolving' to this running technique.

    Hope of help

    Mitchell Phillips


  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    I saw a runner out erlier today wearing Newtons. I stopped her and asked her opinion. She was a bit non-commital telling me that she was a forefoot runner and that they seemed less cushioned than her usual Nikes, she described them as being akin to running flats
  • jon_gjon_g Posts: 318
    In Februaury's 220, there's an article about a guy (dammit, cant remember his name now!) who was/is an awesome runner in the steeplchase and has represented england and he's now taken up triathlons. there's a picture of him running and you can clearly see he's a heel striker. I'm not 100% convinced changing to forefoot striking is best for everyone. if he's that good and is heel striking, i'm certainlt happy to plod along and heel strike to reduce my chances of injury
  • julesojuleso Posts: 279
    Having read this thread with interest I'd just like to remind people that, should you decide to try mid/forefoot striking, it'll take AGES to get used to it. It took me months and months; I'd advise anyone wishing to try it to make sure that their next race is a pretty long way off.

    I just tried it in my Sauconys and it worked fine; it does seem odd to me to spend £100+ on a pair of trainers that'll teach you to run like you're barefoot!
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    Tonight whilst coaching my charges I took great interest in a running session. Long story very short: the youngster that ran textbook style (forefront, long stride straight back slight forward lean) was about 40 seconds slower than the big galloping one who "just wanted to be as fast as possible"

    Is it horses for courses? I don't know. I need to get new runners very soon, I've had about 10 pairs of Kayanos and they have been great, including a 10kM PB (39.10), but the Newton hype has hooked me. What should I do?

  • TommiTriTommiTri Posts: 879
    I think you're right in you horses for courses comment treefrog, there is a lot of suggestion (and i think it may be mentioned in the newtons section in 220) that we tend to run in the way that the body finds most natural based on body type. However, I do believe that far too many people have grown up on notion that heel striking is how you run, so that when they were kids they may have ran in the forefoot running style, but were told they should heel strike. I know I was, and it was to my detriment until I starting competing at college age and was forced into forefoot running and I have never looked back!

    I think it is possible to run fast which ever way you do it, but baring in mind that a running style does not necessarily make you fast!

    In regards to your thoughts on your running shoes have you ever thought about getting a pair of flats? They take a while to get used to, but when you have you realise that you don't need all that padding, and you start to feel the road a lot better!
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    TommiTri this is a good post - because I agree with you surprise surprise!

    Watching the youngsters run tonight taught me that ...

    1. Each of has our own Natural/Individual style

    2. Changing runners ... if for genuine reasons ... might me a good thing!

    So we're back to square 1!!!!

  • BopomofoBopomofo Posts: 980
    Yeah, go on, give them a go treefrog. I'm sorely tempted myself as I need a new pair of shoes desperately.

    All this talk of running styles recently has made me think very carefully about my own technique, not that I'm anything special when it comes to running.

    As a 38 year old I'm told by most shoe 'experts' that I probably heel-strike and over-pronate, because that's what you do when you're 'older'. Pah!

    When I'm running I am not conscious of my heels striking down. If anything, I'm quite flat-footed. Also, I now have a high cadence and feel that my stride is mainly behind me - contrary to the advice I got a few years ago that my stride should be symmetrical. If I look down when I'm running my legs are never far in front of me, and never straight in the forward part of the stride. Finally, when I up the speed I feel lighter and higher... maybe I'm running on my toes?

    So... I reckon I'm a possible candidate for a pair of Newtons (assuming I can scrape together the cash). They're probably a shoe to buy if your technique suits them, rather than something to buy to change your technique? What do you think?
  • jon_gjon_g Posts: 318
    also, if heel striking is good enough for the queen of kona, it's good enough for me!


    do think it's a case of horses for courses too though. if i'm just out doing easy base miles i tend to heel strike as i'm running at a slower pace, whereas if i up the pace i tend to run up on my toes/flat footed with my feet landing below my body. i race in flats so they might be encouraging fore-foot striking though....[&:]
  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    Go for the hype, buy the Newtons..it is killing me to see mine sitting in the shoe cupboard not taking me anywhere until my knee is sorted..soon, my pretties soon (thats to them not you lot!).

    An awful lot of 'gait analysis' is not overly professional & everyone pronates..because well everyone pronates, your foot rolls in to dissipate shock, its what it does, no matter how old you are. So I am sure that a lot of support shoes are wrongly sold. I can always tell a heel striker..you can hear them coming..thud, thud, thud, whereas mostly no one hears me coming (even in normal runners), scare the poop out of people & their dogs as I fly by...
  • Hello Jon_g,

    you're completely correct that many still promote heel to toe running, it can be safe as chips for a lot of people providing that they promote a bent knee on contact rather than a straight knee which often occurs due to the position of the foot being in breach of your centre line. (hope that makes sense)

    However... (throwing the line out here!!) watch any distance race and see which majority hit the finish line first, and then see which majority hit the finish line last.

    Food for thought.

    (Thai tonight)

  • BopomofoBopomofo Posts: 980
    Interesting stuff, guys. I was out running yesterday, just taking it steady, so thought I'd actively try to heel strike: pushing my leg out in front, not quite straightening it, landing right on my heel.

    Two things happened: 1) I realised my runners are really knackered. 2) All my fillings fell out.

    So, it does look like I'm a mid-foot or toe runner. Not sure which. It doesn't make me better, though, becaue I'm not. I'm slow at running.

    Different styles suit different people, I think is what we're saying. Just makes me think that those Newtons would suit me, but if I was a real heel-striker I wouldn't buy them.

    Many proponents of the fore-foot running technique point to Gebreselaisse's victory in the 2000 olympics 10k over his heel striking opponent (can't remember the name).... this still means the second fastest 10k runner in the world was a heel striker.
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