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Major Contraversy!



  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Jonnni: it could have been me as I wouldn't be seen dead in a black plastic bag.

    High tec,lightweight kit will give you an advantage only once,after that you have to look at yourself for improvment.

    The sweet taste of sucess is so much better once you have swallowed the bitterness of finishing last.

    My competitive race days are over provided,if I can leave a race in the Knowledge that my finishing time is comparable with my training time then I am not going to loose any sleep.

    One of the annoying points about charity racers who take days to do the 26 miles whilst wearing Auntie Hilda's gardening shoes is the small fact that they finished outside the cuttoff time and therefore failed to finish the race,all they have succeeded in is walking the course,they did not finish the marathon.
  • BopomofoBopomofo Posts: 980
    I got halfway through reading this thread then though "Screw this, I'm going out training."

    Seriously, this sport is what it is: 3 sports in one. Don't expect it to cost as little as a single sport.

    Also, don't expect to get away with being half-arsed about training.

    You won't achieve your aims by turning up in a wheelbarrow wearing a pair of green flash, just like if you don't train and expect to hit your goals just because daddy bought you a £5k bike.

    I'll tell you something, though: the well-trained athlete who turns up with low quality kit is still in with a good chance of success (by whatever measure). The idiot that turns up untrained will fail regardless of anything else.

    There's a balance in there somewhere. We each find our own.
  • sfullersfuller Posts: 628
    Im with Conehead.

  • Treefrog, you really do have a nerve! Many people just cannot afford expensive, fancy kit. As another poster said, every competitor has paid the entry fee so they have just the same right as you to be out there, competing. What gives you the right to judge people because of the gear they own?

    I was made redundant last year, don't have a lot of cash, but want to compete in tri's. If I want to turn up on a 2nd hand bike with a bell and a basket, then I will. I won't have you, or anyone else, slagging me off because of it. Anyway, you sound like the sort of person who would insult someone behind their back, not to their face...

    Just remember, just because you have expensive gear doesn't make you a better person/athlete than me.

  • jon_gjon_g Posts: 318
    have to say i agree with swim. i'm saving for a wedding, paying my mortgage and saving to pay for a repair to 'our' car's gearbox. i'd love a fancy carbon bike. i even know exactly what i would get if i had money. even at different price points! but i cant afford it at the moment. so i do what i can that doesnt cost a lot of money, i train! i'm not going to win my age-group unless i keep competeing till i'm 100 and i'm the only one in my group!

    think that is the difference as GHarv points out above. the difference between competing and being competitive. i can completely understand people asking on here for advice on a bike for £300 or the 'cheapest' shorts or whatever, just trying to get some advice from people with experience. and i too turn3ed up for my first races on a mountain bike. wore baggy shorts for the swim (this was in south africa!) and a t-shirt for the bike an run. i ahd a great time, didnt come last.

    think as long as the slower ones of us stay out of the way of the epople who are out to win then whats the problem??
  • BopomofoBopomofo Posts: 980
    Ha ha ha, treefrog, you've done it again.

    Correct attitude, jon_g.

    @swim: telling treefrog to go shove his eliteist attitude is a like a rite of initiation here. We've all done it at some point. [:D]

    Learn to ignore some of his more hard-line rantings and there's a lot of good advice in there too. Now go and use all that anger in a training session!

    Re-reading Gharv's post a few times makes sense: Some people have trouble understanding that some of us have goals other than 'Smash the opposition'. To do that you need to spend a lot of cash or go home. For the rest of us, like I said, we find a balance.

    A long time ago on these forums I got criticised for saying I was doing my best while riding a £300 Halford's bike. I got told I was 'a loser', I was 'wasting my time' and also told to stop whinging and spend some money. I got annoyed and quite sweary - then I realised I couldn't give a stuff so long as I enjoying my racing.

  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    I wasn't going to add anything to this thread, as most of has been said, but seeing as a deluge of spam (which people keep reading!) has hit the top of the board, I think I will put my two'happorth in.

    1) Keep the barriers to entry as low as possible: So long as it is safe, I don't care what kit people use. There are a lot of good things about Tri - division into age groups, relative friendliness to women (despite one or two misogynists that we see on the board here), that mean that you can be competitive across all levels. It's also a sport where "just doing it" is a significant result, rather than finishing in the top 3. There is no way that I am going to beat a really fit 25 year old, even if I am a really fit 45 year old.

    2) Be transparent about costs: Even though you are getting three complex integrated events in one: they require facilities, co-operation with various agencies, a whole load of marshals, so it is hardly surprising that it costs a bit. But explaining this to some people might be a good idea, all the same. However, I really doubt that entering a Tri would cost anymore than a Friday night out with Godluvsatrier. And you would probably remember more of it afterwards.

    3) Keep catering for all levels/ranges: While keeping the barriers to entry as low as possible, if you really want to get into it, and train 25 hours a week, and spend £15,000 a year on kit, like Treefrog obviously does, then why not. That is also part of the fun of it - thinking of the next new item of kit to where.

    Me, I think I will be downgrading my Saucony shoes to some green flash, just as soon as I've worked out what Treefrog's next race is. And I have a nearly 20 year old mountain bike lurking in the shed that I would just love to overtake him on.
  • JulesJules Posts: 987
    Jack Hughes wrote:

    It's also a sport where "just doing it" is a significant result, rather than finishing in the top 3.

    This is very true. Think of the looks of amazement non-tri folks give you when you tell them that you swim 20 lengths, and then ride 12 miles and then run three miles. For fun. Then you tell them that's only the sprint distance [:D]
  • it simple to me......

    .....i will do the very best i can do. Always. To me that does mean buying the best equipment i can afford, training well and competing in a race to finish in the highest position possible.

    But if the 'best equipment i can afford' is a £200 bike with some old knackered out trainers then that is absolutely fine, because that is 'the very best i can do'.

    And for me, that is what competition is about, its about doing the very best you can do.

  • to be honest i sort of agree here. i have about 800 quid a month for rent bills and food. after that theres not that much left for tri stuff but in buying the cheapest (especially the bike!!) i have often come out regretting it. i now find myself saving up for a new bike because mine has so few gears theres no point using it on a hilly course. some things are fine cheap though - swimming costumes for one and generally goggles and nose clips etc.

    one thing i dont simp on is the time i invest. i do train a lot now and i love it, it makes spending the money that i can spend worth the while. theres no point splahing out on expensive kit and then being incapable of doing in justice!!

    and as soon as my earnings go up i will def spend more on kit (bikes!!).

    oh and i would never begrudge the entry fees to these things, theres oviously an awful lot of organisation that goes into them and its worth it!! xx
  • BopomofoBopomofo Posts: 980
    @Jack Hughes: best post in ages. Funny and true. Please ghost-write conehead's next book for him.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Jack Hughes,any relation to Emile Zola's friend J'accuse. (probably lost on the lucky ones who fell asleep in french history at school).

    A modern day equivalent would be a letter to 220 titled, Treefrog J'Accuse of a holier than thou attitude.
  • Jack HughesJack Hughes Posts: 1,262
    @Jon.E I've been rumbled! Very well done!
  • WOW.... took me a long time to read (most) of these posts...

    2 points:-

    1) Some people are running the risk of being all the gear and no idea, lets be honest its not the Olympics... dont get me wrong I know a lot of people take it seriously, but come on, everyone deserves a fair crack at the event, without people like us who would you beat??? if you dont like us then enter better competitions with elite athlete and see if they think you are a useless muppet and then tell you on here!!! dont be a big fish in a small pond, there is always someone bigger... until you are Olympic champion, I think you have made yourself look a little bit silly... back in your box....

    2) Would Lance Armstrong beat you all on a grifter... yes......... would Phelps beat you in surf shorts.... yes..... and would Haile Gabri Selassie beat you on the run in green flash.... yes......


    an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

  • BexHBexH Posts: 226
    Hmm, this is an interesting one. I am totally new to tri and would like to think I am putting in a fair amount of effort into my training so far. However, as with lots of us I have limited spare cash to spend on equipment so I decided to spend on stuff that would make it more comfortable ie. decent running shoes & a trisuit. My bike I bought fairly inexpensively as a) I didn't want to spend loads when I didn't know what I was looking at, and b) if I end up continuing with tri then I can always upgrade my bike next year right?

    On the expensive gear theme I used to compete doing dressage and showjumping. There were always people who would turn up on expensive 'push-button' horses who inevitably would place highly even if they couldn't ride that well. However, I always got satisfaction from the fact that I might get placed on my 'cheap' horse and that it was due to my training, effort and time not 'the kit' necessarily. Sometimes I wondered how much better I might do if I had a 'better' horse but I guess it depends if you are the sort of person who's happy competing against themself or feels the need to compete against other competitors. I started training for my tri saying I just wanted to complete and get fit... but now am wanting to be a tiny bit competitive (just a tiny bit!)
  • jonnnijonnni Posts: 32
    Good posts Phys and Bex - spot on

    For me it is about choosing what you what to spend on Tri and then being the best you can with what you have

    My particular 'cheap horse' is a 10 year old Giant Peloton bought from my neighbour for £100. Maybe a £2000 bike would make me a few minutes faster but I don't really care, my goal is to be as good as I can be on that bike.

    In fact I don't know why people say Tri is expensive

    Bike £100, Tri Suit £30, Bike shoes/pedals £110 (recent upgrage), Running shoes £70, goggles £15, Wetsuit hire £25 Total = £350 or £30 per month - Sky sports (which I don't have) = £40 per month!

    Equally I have no isssue with those that spend that kind of money as long as they don't think that this gives them additional rights above those that don't - except starting in a better wave if they can go faster or entering elite events

    I will upgrade my bike one day but for now I keep my £2000 and my happiness

    PS Gabri could beat me in green flash on a pogo stick carrying a basket of eggs!

  • I normally disagree with Treefrog, but I'm sort of with him on this one. That is, assuming he means:

    "I would prefer that those who do triathlons just to take the piss, rather than to compete (with the leaders, themselves, or whatever other goal they have set), should find another sport"

    I think cheap kit is fine - spend what you can afford and what you can spare. But there is a part of me that hopes triathlon doesn't become too much like marathons, where a small minority of people enter them without any notion of what is involved and have not even tried to train for it (Jade Goody or someone similar did it a couple of years ago). I like the fact that triathlons are a mixed bunch (all abilities, jobs, kit, motives and so on), but I've yet to meet someone at a race who didn't care whether they finished or not, or hadn't trained as best as they could to ensure that they did finish. I think that the reference to plimsols, speedos etc was referring to the 'marathon give it a go - how hard can it be mob' rather than to those that genuinely cared about the race but simply couldn't afford all the bling kit. If I'm right in that assumption, then I agree with Treefrog.

  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    You're quite right, you have articulated my thougts in a precise manner - I may have been a bit hamfisted about it but that's cos I'm a "sports jock".

    I'm glad to see somebody agrees.

    Now that the point has been succintly made I'm prpared to let this one go and wait for the next controversy to arise. Signed the Military Wing of 220[8D]

  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    ...and another thing Lance Armstrong would not beat me on a Grifter
  • GHarvGHarv Posts: 456
    ...and another thing Lance Armstrong would not beat me on a Grifter

    Best post ever.........................
  • nivaghnivagh Posts: 595

    So, does Lance read this forum and is he going to pick up your gauntlet? [;)]
  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    My guess..Armstrong insults treefrog & his integrity from the off, invokes the spirit of grifter riders the whole world over who may be insulted by his trivialisation of grifter riding, tells him he is not worth the saddle he is sitting on & never answers the question at all.
  • treefrogtreefrog Posts: 1,242
    There was a very interesting article in Cycling Plus about the Grifter recently, about how it was the successor to the much loved Chopper and that it became the victim of new fangled BMX's from the USA
  • JulesJules Posts: 987
    I had a Grifter, I loved it [:D]
  • BritspinBritspin Posts: 1,655
    As a manegement trainee in a large retail store, onthe toy department, my favoured mode of transport was a grifter..when the go kart was in use.
  • jonEjonE Posts: 1,113
    Jules wrote:

    I had a Grifter, I loved it [:D]

    twist grip gears mmmmm nice,if only they had made it about 10kg's lighter then where would mtb's be now.

    As for Lance on a Grifter,I don't think that it is UCI legal, not made by Trek,or painted yellow and black.
  • Where i understand what is being said on this link, when i caught, overtook then pulled away from someone who was riding a RED carbon flying machine with wheels that made it sound like a truck on one of the hills at Blenhiem last summer whilst riding a hybrid mountain bike it was one of the most satisfying moments i have felt in sport.

    Its not about what you wear or ride its how you use it.
  • NO, No, no............... Boxer all the way!
  • BopomofoBopomofo Posts: 980
    I'm glad this thread has been de-railed because I was getting bored of it.

    Shut up the lot of you and get on with some training.
  • bennybenny Posts: 1,314
    This is my first post on the contraversy hype threads.

    I have to agree with Bopo (I know, it scares me too!!![:D]).

    Shut up and get on with some drinking!!!
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